Follow me:
Search

Dr. Tom Burns | Turn Your Paycheck Into Financial Freedom

Play episode
Hosted by
Mike Ayala

On this episode of Investing for Freedom, Mike interviews Dr. Tom Burns. They discuss setbacks, family, real estate, core beliefs, and so much more. Dr. Burns shares an incredible story about his relationship with Robert Kiyosaki and discusses his own book, Why Doctors Don’t Get Rich.

“Marriage, partnerships, everything works better with communication. Nice, honest, open communication. You’ll find that it’s never as bad as you think it’s going to be when you open up and tell them how you’re really feeling, and things usually come out better.”

FIND | DR. TOM BURNS:

Website: richdoctor.com
Email: hello@richdoctor.com

HIGHLIGHTS:

0:00 – Intro
0:54 – Dr. Burns explains how his dad has had the biggest impact on his life and Robert Kiyosaki on his business life
1:30 – Mike asks Dr. Burns what the one thing that has had the biggest impact on his life is
2:45 – Dr. Burns tells us his financial situation in 2008 was his greatest setback
4:17 – Dr. Burns explains that you learn from your mistakes and they shape you moving forward
4:30 – “Always give a 100%” is the piece of advice Dr. Burns finds himself sharing the most
5:37 – Mike asks Dr. Burns what drove him to write his book Why Doctors Don’t Get Rich
7:34 – Dr. Burns gives us an insight into his background
10:03 – Mike asks Dr. Burns what his first deal was
12:33 – Dr. Burns shares his advice for people looking to partner/invest with operators
14:53 – Mike asks Dr. Burns to share some advice for people who want to take on outside income
19:17 – Dr. Burns discusses what really drives him, “the man I want to admire is the man I am in the future”
25:10 – Dr. Burns talks about his relationship with Robert Kiyosaki
33:16 – Dr. Burns speaks about how he balances being a doctor, volunteering, mentoring, coaching, writing a book, and everything else
34:30 – Mike asks Dr. Burns if he buys existing buildings as well as builds new
36:24 – Mike asks Dr. Burns how and why he picked his business partner
41:28 – Dr. Burns informs us of what he thinks a good partnership should look like
46:25 – Dr. Burns shares his advice on marriage, which is to communicate and compromise
50:12 – Dr. Burns’ best piece of parenting advice is that your children need to understand that success is a lot more than money and titles

FULL TRANSCRIPTION:

Mike Ayala: Thank you for joining me on The Investing for Freedom Podcast. Today I’ve got a special guest who I have a lot of esteem and respect for Dr. Tom Burns in the house with us. And I’m just super excited for this episode. You know, he’s got a new book out and everybody that I’ve ever met, that knows Dr. Tom just has so many amazing things to say, he’s one of the most genuine people in the world. And so I’m really excited to just kind of pull back the curtain and see what drives him and also just get into some of his stories because he’s done amazing things. So Dr. Tom, thanks for being with us.

Dr. Tom Burns: Thanks, Mike. Glad to be here. Thanks for letting me into your beautiful studio here.

Mike Ayala: Thank you. Yeah, so we’re obviously in Lake Tahoe, and man, just having an amazing time we are at the GoBundance event and just a great time, great people.

Dr. Tom Burns: Yeah, you can’t beat hanging around with successful people moving forward.

Mike Ayala: Yeah, yeah. Well, I appreciate you taking some time out of your afternoons. So let’s jump into the question. So who’s had the greatest impact on your life?

Dr. Tom Burns: You know, probably, you know, I want to say my dad, to be honest with you, just because he was a loving father. He was always there for us. He was a man that traveled around but always made sure he had time for us. I think that probably really translated into my life because the most important thing for me is spending time with my kids. From a business standpoint, I had to really think Robert Kiyosaki has been a help for me and kind of a motivator.

Mike Ayala: That’s so cool. There’s a lot of us that have that common thread with Mr. Kiyosaki. So, that’s pretty cool. We’ll probably circle back and talk about how you two met because you were actually pivotable in the book launch.

Dr. Tom Burns: I did have a little part of that.

Mike Ayala: Yeah. So we’ll circle back on that. If you could narrow it down to one thing that has had the greatest impact on your success, what do you think that would be?

Dr. Tom Burns: I think it’s the latest the ability to not quit. I just kind of kept, you know, the old football coach said, you know, keep my head down, keep your knees up and keep moving forward. So been knocked down a few times. Not too bad. I think I tend to forget the bad times in order to remember the good ones. So I think just persistence, it’s a great tool.

Mike Ayala: I love that persistence is a great tool. You know, and I like that about you. I think you can learn a lot just by watching people. And, you know, we were just having lunch, and you were telling a story, which we don’t need to get into the details about it. But you had this super challenging setback recently. And the way you’re handling that and taking it with strides like I’m just super impressed.

Dr. Tom Burns: You know, like, right, yeah, I wouldn’t be impressed. Just what can you do about it? You know, you can’t change the past. What’s that quote? To live in the past is to be depressed, to live in the future is anxious and to live in the present is to be at peace. So I just want to stay that way.

Mike Ayala: That’s so good. I mean, we could just end the podcast right there.

Dr. Tom Burns: And let’s go skiing.

Mike Ayala: Yeah, perfect. What was your greatest setback? And what did it teach you?

Dr. Tom Burns: Probably from a financial standpoint, 2008 was a little trying, I have obviously been in the real estate business for a long time. And back then I had had a lot of debt out, I had a lot of bridge debt, some lot of personally guaranteed stuff at rates that people would croak today. 18% loans and most of the stuff that was going to be bringing in the revenue to pay that went flat and wasn’t working. And so I ended up having to go to various banks, get some lines of credit, and I paid everybody off, every investor plus interest. And so that was a, it was a setback. But it was a good lesson too.

Mike Ayala: Wow. You know, and that’s one of the reasons again, just back to go abundance, you know, we’ve got little groups that we get into called pods, and you pop into our pot every once a while and show up on the calls. And I just so appreciate it. I so appreciate the wisdom of the guys that have been through like 2008. Because, you know, I mean, a lot of us, I went through 2008, but I wasn’t heavy in real estate. And it was just my own portfolio at that point in time. I had some serious business challenges, but not so much on the real estate front. So I feel like you know, when I have people like you in my life, I’m just so appreciative because, you know, you don’t talk about it a lot. But when we hear these kinds of answers, seeing you today, which we’ll get into a little bit of, you know what you’ve done, but I would have never expected that from you in 2008. But it’s totally shaped the way that you’ve changed and come back around.

Dr. Tom Burns: Yeah, it really is. I mean, it goes without saying you learn from your mistakes. And you know, yeah, it shapes you going forward, that’s for sure.

Mike Ayala: You can see those scars, right?

Dr. Tom Burns: Absolutely.

Mike Ayala: What’s the piece of advice you find yourself sharing with people the most?

Dr. Tom Burns: I always tell it’s the business the same thing I share with other people I share with my kids, always give 100% whether you’re taking out the trash, you’re doing a big real estate deal, or starting a business. Always give your best. That way you don’t have to strive for perfection. You strive for excellence, always giving your best. And then I have to add just be honest, be clear and honest because it’s too hard to remember what you said if you’re not telling the truth, it’s so much easier to be honest. It’s cleansing to tell people when you did something wrong. Or you did something that maybe you shouldn’t have done. It just works out better, life gets a lot easier and it keeps your consistency.

Mike Ayala: Wow, that’s amazing. Such good advice. Well, I kind of want to, I want to start, we’ll obviously go backwards. But I want to start with you recently wrote a book.

Dr. Tom Burns: I did.

Mike Ayala: Yeah. Let’s talk about that a little bit.

Dr. Tom Burns: I’d love to.

Mike Ayala: So it’s called Why Doctors Don’t Get Rich. I nailed it.

Dr. Tom Burns: Yeah, not bad. And the subtitle is How You Can Create Freedom Through Passive Income Investing.

Mike Ayala: Cool. So Dr. Tom knows a little bit about this because he’s actually a doctor. And you’ve done a lot of real estate investing. So let’s begin with the end in mind. So you wrote this book. What drove you to write that book?

Dr. Tom Burns: To be real honest with you. My friend Robert Kiyosaki said, Tom, you have a story about how to write a book. And that’s an honest answer. And so most of us feel like we have a book in us. And I had always wanted to do it. So that was just enough of a trigger to say, okay, so I started writing the book and decided I was going to write it all myself, rather than using the leverage of a ghostwriter or somebody and because, pardon, my voice is a little rough today. Through the process of writing the book and doing the research for it as well, I’ve found, sort of found the problem that was deeper than I thought it was, mostly in medicine, but in professionals and sort of W2 working people in general, a lot of people aren’t happy with their jobs, everybody thinks doctors are happy. And they’re not all happy. So the mission came, it became to sort of relieve the pressure off of doctors, and doctors, as far as the book title assumes, and then professionals, anybody that sort of feels trapped in their life, you know, we can make a lot of money and still not be happy. And so that was the mission. And so that’s why I started the book. And then, you know, sort of by the time it finished, it sort of became a mission.

Mike Ayala: Wow. So this book is, you kind of said this already. But it’s not just for doctors, it would apply to engineers, attorneys.

Dr. Tom Burns: Yeah, it’s sort of life and financial principles, all for, you know, it’s not really a how-to book but you know, the whole first part is about how to think about life, money, things like that. And so you can just basically insert, I wrote it to doctors, for everybody. So you can just insert your profession or job in there where it says doctor, and the principles are timeless.

Mike Ayala: I like that, to doctors, for everybody.  Well, let’s go backward. And you can take me wherever you want to go. But how did you become Dr. Tom Burns? I mean, just give me your backstory.

Dr. Tom Burns: Sure. You bet. So I grew up in, going way back, I was an athlete when I was younger, and I was pretty good. I was really good in some things, but pretty good and really good doesn’t pay the bills. So I knew that wasn’t going to be a profession. So I went into orthopedic surgery and sports medicine because I like being around athletes. And so I’ve done that for the last 30 years. I do a lot with the United States Ski Team, as we talked about earlier. And so that was fun. And that’s how I became a doctor. I went to medical school, did my residency, and it was in my residency, where sort of the light bulb went on for what you and I are talking about today.

Mike Ayala: And what was that light bulb?

Dr. Tom Burns: Well, I was so you know, we get trained, it’s like, you go to school, and then you get trained in an apprenticeship program. Basically, you’re working with somebody older than you or even farther along. And at some point, I had, there were doctors, the people that I was supposed to emulate when I was for the next 40 years, my life, this is what it’s going to be like, these guys were unhappy. They were on their third marriages. They were in the hospital 8, 9, 10 o’clock at night, and complaining all the time about how they didn’t have control over their lives, though they made a lot of money. And it was back then that I decided that I didn’t necessarily want their money if I had to have their life. So I figured there had to be something else. I had zero financial training. And so I just started looking, I read things, I went to free seminars, and looked at the stock market realize that wasn’t for me too fast, needed to really, anything you want to get good at you need to study and I just wasn’t excited about that. Thought about being an administrator in the medical world that was a dead-end, I found out that quickly because I’m relatively unemployable. Without real estate, it moved slowly. I could do it part-time or full time I could do it on off-hours. I could use partners if I needed to, it seemed like it fit. So that’s where I started, it just started. Once I finished my training, actually I finished my training and didn’t just jump in because, you know, I was blessed with a good job. And I didn’t want my family suffering. I had two children at the time.  I had one young child and one that was about to be my second child and I decided that I didn’t want to make them suffer for my stupidity or my mistakes. So I did make sure I kind of pay some things off and wasn’t going to make them take risks with me. Then I went out and I went out bought some because I figured I’d learn the best by doing it, so I bought something.

Mike Ayala: What was your first deal?

Dr. Tom Burns: It was a student condominium on West Campus at the University of Texas.

Mike Ayala: Wow. So you skipped the single-family thing.

Dr. Tom Burns: Well, it was just one unit. One unit. Yeah, I bought one condo, like I started making cash flow my whole, the whole plan was for me to make, I wanted money, or income that was going to come in that wasn’t correlated with medicine. I wanted to come in from somewhere else do, we would call that passive income or alternative income now, I didn’t really know the term passive income at the time. But it started happening. And you know, it’s a little bit addicting, you get a little bit of money, and so I bought more. And then I bought more, and I bought more, and I got pretty good at that little market. And what happens when you get reasonably good at a market, people start noticing, so they start bringing you deals, peoples come in and start wanting to partner. And that’s what happened. I had a pretty large portfolio there. And then other partners came on. And that branched out into other things. And I sort of reached a plateau where I was reading what I could, I was going to a seminar or two. And then I figured I needed to learn some more. And so I finally went to somebody, went to a friend of mine, he was a real estate developer and we had taken vacations together and I knew the success and I said, Look, I really like what you do, do you mind teaching me and he said, Sure. So I worked for him for a year and a half for free. As a full-time orthopedic surgeon, we were doing land deals, build the suits, looking for land for banks, looking for and strangely enough looking for land to build a hospital. So I was talking to brokers and getting land prices and doing things like that. And through that process, we got to where we were working well together. And we built out a rather large medical complex together. So kind of from I was just basically asking him for some help. And then years later, we still own that complex today.

Mike Ayala: Wow, that’s pretty amazing. So on that note, what advice do you have and there’s people on both sides of this, but what advice, I love the way that it kind of it sounds like it kind of organically happened for you. I mean, nowadays, there’s like, you know, we met at a seminar teaching people how to syndicate. So nowadays there’s, you know, there’s all walks, but it sounded like it happened organically for you. So what advice do you have for people wanting to partner meaning invest with operators?

Dr. Tom Burns: Like in a syndicate, like passively? So there’s a couple of ways to go about it, there’s the purely hands-off method. And, you know, I always encourage people to try to know who you’re investing with, whether it’s your financial planner or a sponsor, that you’re going to give your money, try to know who they are. And if you can, try to get a little bit of education to find out what they’re doing and why they’re doing it. You don’t have to become an expert, but you have to, it helps for you to understand what they’re doing. A lot of people will say, you’ve been I know have heard these words a lot is that I invest with the person rather than the deal. And you know, quite honestly, I do the same thing. Although I tend to vet the merits of the deal itself. So get to know that person. There’s a lot of shiny pennies out there, I wouldn’t pick up every one that you see. Sometimes, maybe pick a deal that you might have invested in and watch out how it does. And one of the easiest things is if you’ve got friends, people that you trust, and they say, look, I’ve invested with so and so for many years, it’s really been well, they’ve got a good track record. They’ve treated me right. That’s one of your best endorsements.

Mike Ayala: Yeah. And that’s sage advice right there. Because I mean, whether you’re looking for a plumber, or whether you’re looking for an electrician or a syndicator talks to somebody that’s done it with them. That’s a great point. You know, and on the note, like we talked about this a little bit, but we met actually through the real estate guys at a syndication event. We were just reminiscing about this at lunch. And there’s a lot of people that go to that event that literally just want to place capital and they’re there wanting to understand the syndication process, but also meet operators,  which I think is kind of, it’s the next level of what you’re talking about, about vetting people. There’s literally investors that go through this two-day training just to understand what syndication is, so they can, like have some wisdom around placing their money.

Dr. Tom Burns: Exactly. And it’s great training,  it helps you know what you don’t know because we don’t all know what we don’t know. So that particular event is curated so that it touches everything that you might want to know about syndication, or an operator really gives you some insight and what you need to look for.

Mike Ayala: Yeah, and outside of a few questions that I’m going to ask you later about family and values and all that this might be the most important thing coming from you because just the way you operate and integrity and everything else, I think this question is going to be, the answer to this will probably be super valuable. But for people that want to take on outside capital, can you give us some advice around that?

Dr. Tom Burns: You bet. And I will say that I think right now is that right now is the easiest time to raise money. That’s a good thing. I mean, people are dying, they’re throwing money at people because there’s less deals and there is money. But if you’re going to take somebody’s money, I told an investor once, he was a young doctor. And this was the first investment that he made with us. And I told him, and this is an honest assessment, I said, I love meeting people and taking things, I said, and tell him about what’s going on. But as soon as I get your money, I always get that little bit of nervousness. It’s like standing on the cliff right before you jump, right? Because I don’t mind, I can tell you how to lose my money, because I’ve done it before. I don’t want to lose your money, it’s a whole different thing. So you need to treat the other person’s money more preciously than you treat your own. Because it’s an honor to have somebody else’s money, it’s an honor to have their trust. And so you want to earn that trust, keep that trust, and you want them to succeed because if they do, you will. So you know, respect the fact that it’s their money, and you’re a steward of their money. And be honest, you know, help them be transparent and give them information because people get nervous. We don’t realize that when we take somebody’s money. They’re wondering what’s going on. You know, is that person really being a good steward? So communicate with them. And be there when they ask questions.

Mike Ayala: I think it was Russ Gray that I heard say one time that if it’s good to be scared about taking people’s money. Yeah, and exactly. I love that. So I love the way you framed all that too. I think it’s super important. And it’s the next level. Another observation I had, and I’d love to get your thoughts on this. So, you know, a lot of us and probably a lot of my listeners, just like you started out. I mean, we start out buying, you’re a doctor, I owned a plumbing and heating company, we’ve got people that are listening, that are engineers, or they’re cooks or whatever, I don’t know what they are. What happens is, I think real estate is a natural evolution for passive income, and it’s something that everybody, I think, can figure out and get their hand around. It’s hard to find deals today. But that’s another conversation. But what I found is like, I started out, you know, Kara and I investing in real estate, we had single families, we had some mobile home parks and all that. But what I quickly realized, when I sold my business, this little passive investment portfolio that I had, I wanted to leave that, and I wanted to keep moving forward thinking that I was going to continue to invest passively. But the minute that we start taking on investors and building out an investment portfolio and all that it’s no longer passive, we’re now building up a business, right? And I’ve seen so many people not understand the shift that they’re about to make, they might have been a great passive, well, it’s not fully passive either. But, you know, maybe they have one or two or 10 single families and maybe they have a property management company managing it and so it’s somewhat passive. But then all of a sudden, they decide to go build out this real estate Empire. And so many times I’ve said hey, just be careful, there’s no right or wrong in this but you’re changing from a real estate portfolio to an investment company, you’re literally forming a business. So what’s your thoughts on that?

Dr. Tom Burns:  I agree. It’s again more responsibility, kind of a sacred responsibility and some people toss that off you know, just because it’s so easy to take money now. I view it as sacred and so you’ve got to try to learn to put systems in place, communication helps everything. I can just tell you if you communicate even when you make mistakes communicate the good things you do, the bad things you do everything’s going to work out. It does typically. But it is a different thing that rather than just to watch your portfolio because you’re now responsible for other people’s money and your typical responsible for the investment. So you need to say your porn on porn on different rains now you know, you’re hiring the managers, you’re hiring the vendors if you need them. And you’re doing the financing. So there’s a lot of parts to it as, basically, as you said, it’s a business that has multiple moving parts. It needs systems.

Mike Ayala: Yeah, love it. So just having gotten to know you and just being around you what really drives you?

Dr. Tom Burns: I got you know, there’s a lot of stuff, but I boiled it down. So I’m a big fan of always been better the next day than I was today. That’s a Matthew McConaughey, his quote is one of my favorites. The man I want to admire is the man that I am in the future, man, I am 10 years from now. And that really stuck with me. But I’ve sort of had that thought before. And so I’m always trying to learn. I always try to do something different. And so I actually did a seminar recently, it was a core values. It was two days of just trying to figure out my core values and they were Adventure, growth, and connection. So those things drive me. So I’m sitting in Lake Tahoe that hits one of them there, connection is another one and then growth. I am in a conference where I’m trying to grow, you know, spiritually, relationships, and financially. So those are the things that drive me, and they get me excited.

Mike Ayala: I love that. And the growth part of that, it’s really inspiring for me to watch you and guys like you. That, I mean, you’re super successful in your own world. I mean, and I’m not saying this passively, but you wrote the book, literally, and there’s so much wisdom in there. I mean, there are thousands and thousands, and thousands of doctors and high net worth people that need the wisdom that’s in that book. And so, you know, you’ve built an amazing family, I know being around you that your family is number one. So by all accounts, I mean, you’ve done the thing, and I love watching, you know, there’s so many places that I’ve been where I’m going to grow, and I see you there, and you’re continuing to grow. And it’s obvious that that’s a value of yours, but I’m so inspired by that, because it never ends.

Dr. Tom Burns: Hopefully, by the time you get to wherever that is, you’ll be looking at something else, you know, we’ve always got, I think if we don’t keep growing, I think we stagnate and die. You know, there’s a quote out there for that somewhere. But if I don’t have something to look forward to, to get better at to grow, whether it’s physically, mentally, whatever garden I’m thinking about then, and I just kind of feel like I’m sitting around taking up space. And you know, we’re only here once.

Mike Ayala: Yeah, I love it. I love the way you live your life. I just want to say that to you.

Dr. Tom Burns: Thank you.

Mike Ayala: It’s inspiring. Random question just because I’m thinking about it. If you had to pick you could only read one book, what would it be?

Dr. Tom Burns: Oh, wow. Oh, there’s so many. I mean, I come up with a good answer here. It’s certainly, all the money books, you can always read money books, you know, maybe one of those deep books by Eckhart Tolle. But that’s not true, either. I don’t have a good straight answer for you. Something that’s going to make me, and I don’t have the title, and I’m sure I’ve read it, whatever it is, but it’s not coming to me. But anything that’s going to make me slow down and think and realize what the real important things are in life. You know, I’ve always tried to run with, I sort of have a priority in life. It’s God, family, fun, work, you know. So I want to have those things in order. So anything that helps reinforce that helps me be better at what really matters, then I want to read it.

Mike Ayala: Yeah. It’s really hard to narrow it down to one book. You know, I’ve been asked the same question so many times, and one that really sticks out to me is The Richest Man in Babylon. I don’t know if you’ve ever read that. But, and the reason why I like that. I mean, you said it, it’s a money book. It’s a money principles book if you will. But the thing that sticks out to me is that phrase in there when he talks about there’s, it’s just a bunch of stories about people becoming better, and it’s framed through money, but usually, it’s integrity, conversations, it’s growth things. And there’s that phrase in there. In one of the stories, the guy gets asked over and over, do you have the heart of the slave or the heart of a free man? And that’s like, such a principle to me. Because, you know, even though it’s based on money, it’s so much bigger than that.

Dr. Tom Burns: Oh, absolutely.  There are so many ways we can grow, you know, and sometimes, when folks are younger, you know, money is an important thing. It’s a very important things for success in life goes we needed to eat and Zig Ziglar says oxygen as far as importance, but there’s so many other places to grow and always try to impress on the somewhat younger ones that have got that sort of drive in them that it’s not all about the number that you see on your bank account.

Mike Ayala: Yeah, you know, and that’s such an interesting point. And this is another lesson that I’ve watched, these are great conversations, because a lot of times we don’t, I guess appreciate people enough, but I’ve watched and learned a lot from you just and you know, we haven’t spent a ton of time together but you’re such a giving person. Just even, you are the doc for the US ski team or one of the docs, I don’t know how that works. Every time I talk to you, I learned a little bit more about that, you know, how charitable you are. So back to the money thing. Yeah, money is extremely important. But some of the most successful people that I’ve met in the world are the most generous too.

Dr. Tom Burns: Absolutely. You know, it’s what’s that premise? If you want something first, give it first. You know, so yeah. And I think that probably got them to where they are. And that spirit of generosity and abundance gets you farther than a spirit of, you know, whatever the opposite is.

Mike Ayala: Yeah. Well, I think, you know, when you try to hold on to something too tight, whether it’s another human or money or anything else, I mean, it tries to run from you.

Dr. Tom Burns: Yeah, absolutely.

Mike Ayala: So I love that perspective. So adventure, connection, and growth. That’s really cool. I appreciate that. So let’s talk about Robert Kiyosaki a little bit. When I saw Robert grab you and I don’t even remember what event this was, but he brought you up next to him and, and he actually said that he owes a lot of the success of rich dad poor dad to you.

Dr. Tom Burns: He does, and he gives me more credit than it’s worth. Yeah, that was at a party in New Orleans I was calmly talking to somebody else, I had no idea was going to rip me to the front of the room. But so the story goes that I was years ago I was out doing errands, I was running errands, and I went to get my car washed. And I went in and paid my bill. And back on the back corner was a handwritten sign that said, books for sale and just this little stack of lonely purple and gold books were back there. But it had a kind of an interesting title. It said, Rich Dad, I could see it from where I was, I said, let me see that. And, you know, I was a voracious reader, was then still now and was reading those kinds of books. This was back, you know, 1997 or so. I said put one of those on my bill too. So I just was going to go along with a stack of all the books I was going to read one day, right? And a family was gone. They were up in Dallas visiting my wife’s parents. And so I was there all by myself. So I did whatever errands I was going to do and watched a  bad movie or something at 11.30 at night I had previously just tossed that book on my desk and went back past my office on the way to bed and picked up that book and kind of did one of those things to see what I was going to read one day and kind of enjoy the first few words. I read a page or two and kind of leaned against the desk and read some more. And now four hours later, the book was finished. And I called a friend of mine and said I just read the best book I’ve ever read. And so I gave it to him, he was like yeah, sure and gave it to him about a week later. He goes, wow you’re right. So we called those, wanted to find out who this person was we called the publisher. The number on the inside of the book to call the publisher well, the person on the other end of the line was Robert Kiyosaki. He had self-published the book and we said, Hey, we like these books. He said he had published 1000 books and sent two dozen to Austin to his buddy who owned a carwash. Well, the next day, I’d gone back and bought all the rest of the books. So he said how many you got. He goes, well, 1000 minus two dozen, I hadn’t sold any yet. So anyway, we went out to visit him, got to know him. He truly was pulling books out of his trunk and giving them to me when we left and I say, Hey, man, I don’t want to take all your books. He goes, don’t worry, nobody’s buying them anyway. It is an understatement, right? So then we got to know each other. And you know, I brought him to Austin to talk to some people and he was kind of an unknown fellow at the time. And we got him connected with the Amway organization. And so all of a sudden, he’s speaking to 50,000 people there endorsing the book. He sells enough books that Oprah notices. He’ll tell you that he was unknown until the day he was on Oprah show and he was famous after that.

Mike Ayala: Wow. It’s pretty amazing. I love the way he honors you too.

Dr. Tom Burns: Yeah, he’s a loyal guy. He’s a consummate teacher, the guy doesn’t have to do a thing. He’s got plenty of money. He loves to teach, even if it was a conversation like this, he’d be going off on the economy and trying to teach. So he’s what he looks like, on the surfaces of a teacher. And he is very kind. I mean, he wrote the book, all I did was read it. So I just happened to be the first guy to buy one. So he gives me more credit than I deserve.

Mike Ayala: Yeah. That’s awesome. Did he write the foreword to your book?

Dr. Tom Burns: He did. He did. It was his idea to write the book.

Mike Ayala: So you’re like you have to write the forward?

Dr. Tom Burns: No, he said, All right. He said, once you write, he goes, I’ll write the foreword. So it’s very kind of him. He wrote a very nice forward.

Mike Ayala: That’s cool. You know, I think if there’s any one person that has had, you know, the greatest impact in shaping the way I think it’s probably his teachings and writings.

Dr. Tom Burns: Yeah, it’s pretty timeless. It was a little controversial at times. And he may be a little controversial at times, but he’s a fabulous communicator, truly, and his books. It’s just a simple book, you know, and it’s not a, I kind of try to model my book that way that it’s not a how-to book. It’s not, you know, here’s how you flip a house. Here is how to buy an apartment complex because those are everywhere. But it’s, you know, that’ll give man a fish or teach a man to fish you teach somebody to think or if you help them change their thought process that goes with them for the rest of their life and can make them as wealthy as they wish to be.

Mike Ayala: Yeah, I think what you just said is probably one of the most valuable lessons that we can continue to, you know, just ponder, and change and model in our lives. And you know, I’ve said this often, but like, who do I have to become, in order to get in a bigger room or, you know, a lot of times people talk about, you know, the average of the five people you spend the most time with right, which I agree with that 100%. I mean, my wife just put a post-up this morning that, you know, she said, show me your friends, and I’ll show you your future. And so I love the, I fully buy into the, you know, you’re the average of the five people you spend the most time with, but the question I’ve been pondering lately is like, if I’m looking for five new Friends, let’s say or I want to level up the people that I’m around, who do I have to become in order for them to let me into their world.

Dr. Tom Burns:  That’s right. But what is it before, you know, before you have something you have to be, you know. Yeah, and it’s who you are all the time. And genuinely it comes out, it seems out of your pores, and you know, you’re a successful guy, and you’re somebody I’ve always liked to be around. And that’s why we’re in the same space, you know, because we’re with people that really, that you would think a successful group. This is a successful group that we’re here this weekend with. But they are a generous group, we just gave a whole lot of money to some charities, and it’s a generous group, it’s a giving group, everybody wants to help somebody move forward. I think as you keep doing that, you learn a new model who you can be, you know because there’s traits you have that I want to have and improve. And there’s traits that I might have that you might want to and somebody else we see. So life is a lot about modeling. About seeing who you admire, who impresses you, and who you want to be like, well then model what they do.

Mike Ayala: Yeah, I’m actually working with a coach right now. And part of this process is like, I’m doing some deep work with him, stuff I’ve never even done just going back to childhood. But anyway, at the beginning, he started talking about like, what we’re going to have at the end of this process is like designing Mike’s avatar, like what’s the best version of Mike look like? And I had no concept of what the heck that even meant when we first started working on this. But what I love about what you just said is, you know, when we come to places like this, and we get in bigger rooms, and you’re picking up little pieces of things you want to model in different people, I see that, like you’re creating the best avatar version of yourself, taking little bits and pieces of, you know, wisdom from this guy. And I love the way that that guy, parents, and I love the way that the guy that guy treats his wife and I love the way you put that into perspective.

Dr. Tom Burns: Put it all together and it’s you. It’s like we had a  call today with somebody said none of the information in my book is original. But it’s all been packaged differently. Same thing, you might be taking a trait that you really admire, you put it all together in your way, and it’s you. And we do grow for that. We do grow with that. And I think people feel when you’re trying to always be at your best, or trying to become your best, which never ends, right? We’re always trying to become better than we are. And I think that, I think people feel that. And that’s what helps you get in those bigger rooms. It just happens. I think it happens naturally.

Mike Ayala: Yeah, I love that. And you were saying this a little bit before when we started kind of talking about this. Just I guess, you know, just always looking at becoming the best version of yourself, I love the way you pull that together.

Dr. Tom Burns: Yeah, that’s an important one to me. Steal from Matthew McConaughey, but he says it better than I do.

Mike Ayala: I love it. That’s good stuff. So you went through this values process, adventure, connection, growth. How do you keep, you’re balancing a lot of stuff. So just from a practical perspective, I mean, you’re still a doc. You volunteer for the ski team, you do a lot of other volunteering. You’re mentoring, you’re coaching, you’ve wrote a book, you are a  successful real estate investor. How do you balance all that?

Dr. Tom Burns: Just unmedicated attention deficit disorders, I think what it is. But you know, it’s I would say time management, it’s more priorities and priorities and efficiency. And I would say leverage, but I’m not really that great at leveraging yet I’m learning that myself. So it’s you find time for the things that matter. And you know, if you keep that those four that I mentioned before, if you keep God, family, fun, and work kind of in their proper place, you’ll always find time for the important things. And so I just always got up a little earlier than everybody else and sometimes stayed up a little later. I’m getting better at trying to get some rest now. But I think it’s just, I think I balanced them because I like them all. I enjoy, I’m not trying to escape from anything. Yeah, I’m just trying to get the most that I can out of each thing. And when the time comes that it’s not giving me the satisfaction or the growth that I want, I’ll go ahead and sunset that thing and look for something new.

Mike Ayala: Let’s talk a little bit about your business. So even just back to you know, you’re definitely not a passive real estate investor. So why don’t we talk a little bit about it because you guys are builders, do you buy existing buildings too?

Dr. Tom Burns: We would, and we have in the past. It’s just that, at least with our metrics, we haven’t found anything in the last three and a half years that we really wanted to buy, and I know that stuff’s out there and we might have missed a deal or two, but it just didn’t fit our metrics we have, you know, we have a certain way of underwriting things and my partner and I were, we grew by fire, and 2008 and 2009, we had 16 acres of land. And we were developing our first apartment complex. And so that’s, and that’s another story in of itself. But that’s where we kind of cut our teeth on the development. We continue to look at other things and did buy. But as things moved on, as the market matured, particularly the value add market matured, we found that it was a little bit more of a blue ocean, a little calmer area for us to go to stick with development, which we had a fairly long track record with. We know we can build our value. We’ve got the metrics, and we’ve got the teams to do it. So rather than being part of 100 people that are looking at one apartment complex that the deals do, they come to us, it doesn’t mean they’re all good deals. The deals are coming our way. And so most of its sort of quasi off-market and off-market doesn’t always mean it’s a good price or a good deal. But they come to us. So it is just our skillset works better there. And when things turn around, when things change, we know what a good deal looks like. And we’re ready to jump on that.

Mike Ayala: You know, I love, there’s three people that I can think of that I respect a lot. Ken McElroy is another one. And I love watching you guys just, you know, roll with the cycles. And I don’t know that, well, a lot of people are not structured to do it number one. But I love that you guys have built out the team. And so I guess my question here is, how and why did you pick your partner?

Dr. Tom Burns: Ah, that’s okay. So the one I told you, I have two partners, two partners that I could turn my checkbook and my family over to and I’d be happy. I mean, I know it’d be safe. So the first one was the one I asked, you know, will you teach me your stuff. And we’re still partners today. But he’s sort of, he’s kind of made his money. And he’s doing his thing. We’d still talk every week. But you know, he’s not doing new projects, but the current partner actually relates back, so I was speaking for Robert Kiyosaki back in 2001. So I’m on stage and he says, this is Tom burns. He’s from Austin, Texas. And I thought, you know, I did my thing, whatever I did on stage, and then at the break, this young guy and his fiancé come up and said, Hey, we’re so and so we live in the Bay Area, we’re in tech and sales. And we’re moving to Austin, we’re getting into real estate, you know, since we just met you here, since we just saw you on stage, will you be our contact in Austin? I said, Sure. So he sent his wife out first look at my stuff. And you know, we may have some nice pretty looking apartment complexes now. What was it that one of our speakers said, we all start, we’re all beginners at some point. Well, my stuff wasn’t that pretty. And it was, the cheques that came off of them are pretty but anyway, she came and looked at my stuff. She called it back she said his stuff is not that pretty. Anyway, they came to town, we got to know each other. And, you know, I’m sort of slow to take on partners because I want to, you know, I want to make sure it’s right for everybody or for both of us. And we sort of dated as I say for about seven years, operate on the shoulder once, I really wanted to make sure what he was like. And that’s when we got together. So we started, we started back in probably about 2008. That was one of our first projects was that apartment complex we built-in think in 2009.

Mike Ayala: I think it was Ross Gray that said, you know, if two partners have the same strength, one of them’s not needed. Do you guys have different roles and skillsets?

Dr. Tom Burns: Yeah, we do. Kind of both. Well, he’s probably a little more visionary than I am. I’m more of a people guy. And then as far as the implementer part, he is more implementer than me. And so he runs the operations. In fact, we had a nice talk about the fact that I’m really crummy at operations. That’s what I think. So we’ve got things kind of parsed out to where our strengths are, and then hired out the rest of it.

Mike Ayala: Man, that’s so important. And, you know, there was a little bit of like traction, EOS talk there, I guess, on, you know, vision and integrator and I wish, and I don’t have a lot of regrets. But, you know, a lot of my issues that I experienced early on, and the first business that I started in 2004, and along the way and multiple businesses, a lot of the issues once I figured out traction and, and the concept of my core strengths and the fact that I’m a visionary and what I’m good at and what I’m not good at. I think so many people try to just do everything, and I think we’ve been taught this too like, I’d love to get your two cents on this. But for a long time, I think even in leadership, in business, and in growth, we were taught to work on our weaknesses. And I I’m kind of in the school of thought like I think once you figure out what you’re really good at, and just kind of learn to stay in your lane and surround yourself with people that are good at what you’re not good at. That’s when like things really changed for me.

Dr. Tom Burns: It is, and you know, I think your listeners might think, Oh, we’ve had this all along, we’ve had this down forever, you know, I was, you got to realize I was trained as a doctor and doctors are, you know, nobody does it better, right? So it took some time to get that thought process. And it took time for me to realize that I shouldn’t work on my weaknesses, I ought to stick with my strengths, get somebody else to do the stuff I’m not good at. So it is growth. And it’s nice for people to know that you’re not just born with that, it’s okay to screw up and take some time to find that out. But once you do, the best advice is to, is for somebody to kind of pick up on that a lot earlier than maybe you or I did, at least certainly earlier than I did, because it accelerates your career if you learn how to do it right.

Mike Ayala: On the subject of partnerships, you said you’re slow to take on partnerships, which I think there’s a ton of wisdom in that too. Because picking the right partner, you know, number one, picking your spouse I think is super important. And I look at you and I see a guy that looks I don’t think you think in short-term vision. And so when you’re probably the reason I’m guessing here, but probably the reason why you’re so slow to partner is because you want long-lasting relationships.

Dr. Tom Burns: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, short dates are no fun, they’re painful, painful on the way out, it’s much nicer to slowly grow something and know it’s always there for you.

Mike Ayala: So what wisdom, one of the most powerful things I’ve gotten a ton from Ken McElroy, but I remember seeing him and Ross McAllister on stage and Ross is Ken’s partner. But they did a little presentation together on you know, what a good partnership looks like. What are your thoughts on that?

Dr. Tom Burns: You know, it begins with trust and respect. Got to respect their talents, their opinions, you’ve got to trust that, you know, they’re going to do what they do best. And they have your best interest and the company’s best interests at heart. And then you got to communicate. And in fact, when we sort of decided that he was going to operate, and I was going to do some other stuff, as I finally came in and said, I’m unhappy, not with you, I’m just unhappy, you know, sitting in the office doing stuff, just because it was, you know, because it’s nice to have the two principals there, he looked at me and he goes, I’ve been waiting six months for you to come in and do that. So communication is really helpful. That’s when things got a lot nicer. He and I were great. But I was unhappy. And he knew it. And so I think, you know, everything, marriage, partnerships, everything works better with communication, and nice, honest, open communication. You’ll find that it’s never as bad as you think it’s going to be when you open up and tell them how you’re really feeling, and things usually come out better.

Mike Ayala: Wow. That’s amazing. So I have another question. And I’d love to get just your, again, two cents on this. So a lot of you know, whether it was picking up the book and then following through with Rich Dad, Poor Dad or meeting your partner of being on stage. I think a lot of people said, I don’t believe in a lot of random events, I don’t think everything’s necessarily meant to be. But at the same time, like you put yourself in a lot of places where you were just out there. And you know, this couple came up, talk to you, hey, we’re moving to Austin. I think we have a lot of these little opportunities in our life that people don’t recognize. And it sounds to me like, you know, you could have read that book and let that book change your life. But what you did is you called the number because you wanted more copies of that book, why?

Dr. Tom Burns: Yeah, just, I don’t know, I just couldn’t Well, for that particular thing, that wasn’t something that could be isolated, that needed to be shared. So I had to figure out it because I had people that I knew who I only bought another 23 books. So there were more people that needed that. So, I think there’s luck. And I think there’s, you know, or there’s the prepared mind or the curious mind. And like you said, I think we set ourselves up for having these things. We have an open mind that’s ready to recognize something. It helps us move forward. But yeah, as far as the book thing, it just, it just wasn’t right to let that sit, it was too good. And I’d never read a book and said, this thing’s awesome. You’ve got to hear it just happened to be that particular book. Maybe it’s where my mind was at the time. Yeah, because I was in a growth mindset. And it just, it helped me understand terms that I didn’t realize existed. That’s where I learned the term passive income. And that’s what really kind of crystallized what I was doing. I sort of knew in a fuzzy manner what I was doing, but once I saw some diagrams inside that book, I knew exactly what I was going to do.

Mike Ayala: Well, you said one of the things that has had the greatest impact on your success is persistence. And like so even that like number one, I think you’re a very benevolent giving person, you want the best for humanity. And so everybody needs to have this book. I think that’s probably, but the thing is, you did more than most people would do you chased down the publisher you found the phone number. And that led to something amazing, an amazing relationship with an amazing human that opened up. If you had never done that you would not know your current partner potentially.

Dr. Tom Burns: That’s correct. There’s no telling where the track would have gone.

Mike Ayala: Yeah. And so that’s what I was really like, you know, I think a lot of people sit on their couch and they just think about, you know, how bad life’s been to them and how sad their life is. And nothing’s gone right for them. But you’re out there just making stuff happen. And I think it’s that it’s that core thing of persistence. And I number one, appreciate that in you. But also, I wanted to point it out, because, you know, some of it is luck. And some of it is experience, and some of it is you putting yourself out there. And being in the places where opportunity exists.

Dr. Tom Burns: Yeah, and there’s a chapter in the book called Getting the Game. Man, you’re not going to get anything done if you’re not in the game. So sitting in the stands, you get nowhere.

Mike Ayala: That’s very cool. Well, what else do you want to talk about?

Dr. Tom Burns: Man, anything. We can talk about what we’ve been learning. What would you like to know? You know, family. Got a wonderful family. I’ve got a wife of 36 years and two older kids that have great relationships with and they’re both in town, I get to see him. And that’s important. That’s important to me.

Mike Ayala: Yeah. Well, and I think on that note, that’s one of the things that I’ve really appreciated. You have a lot of things going on. And we talked about business and investing in knowledge and writing a book and all these things that you are. But I know just being around you and the way you talk about your wife and your family. I know that’s the most important thing to you. So give us some marriage advice.

Dr. Tom Burns: Oh boy. Well like a fellow that worked for me one time he was newly married. He looked at me and he said, Dr. Burns, he said, Are you always wrong? I said, of course. So anyway, no, that’s not real marriage advice. It goes back to communication again. And let me see, I’ve only used the word persistence or compromise, you know, marriage is really cool. And it’s fun and it’s exciting when it gets started.  Just like love. You know, love is one thing. And you know, love and lust are different things. But you know, marriage really starts to, it starts to mature and age and sweeten and get nicer as you turn it into a partnership where you’re both using each other’s strengths to build a better one than the two of you were apart. So you know, I told you at lunch, I don’t really have any ties at home. But I’m missing my wife already. And she’s not expecting me back. But I may go back a day early, just because, I love hanging out with you. But I love her.

Mike Ayala: She’s probably a lot cuter than I am too.

Dr. Tom Burns: She is, just a touch.

Mike Ayala: I love it. And how about parenting advice? Because you’ve raised some great kids, I have never met them, but the way you talk about them and the things they’re doing.

Dr. Tom Burns: Yeah, and you know, I can tell my kids are great. I love them both. And we never went through that I hate you phase, or at least as far as they didn’t tell me. So you know, we’ve always been respectful of the kids. I will say and I’m going to say this transparently. Because I told somebody the other night, you know, my father was a police officer. My wife’s father was like a machinist. So we were kind of middle-class upbringing. And so I made some money as a doctor. And we sometimes believe that maybe we gave them a few more things because we didn’t have those as a kid. And they’re great kids. They’re strong kids, they’ve finally overcome that. But it took their will to overcome some of that being given some things. I think it’s good to have your kids work for stuff. I think if they want something, and it’s not a birthday and not on the list to go on a birthday or something, you know, find them a way to earn it. And I say that because we did that some, but didn’t do it as well. And that’s, you know, I’m just being honest.

Mike Ayala: Yeah. You said something in the Champions meeting the other day about a syndrome. I wrote down the notes.

Dr. Tom Burns: Successful dad syndrome. We ended up living in a really nice neighborhood. We went to this neighborhood, it was in my hometown of Austin. And I basically pulled all my patients while I was a doctor where the best schools were, and I wanted my kids to go to a public school to get that broader education, but I want them to get a good education, and this particular school district got just high marks from everybody. So when it was time for us to move, we just knew we were moving into that district. So we moved in there and so a lot of other people move there, some pretty wealthy folks and some successful folks and you start noticing that sometimes, you know, some parents will say you know, you’re going to be a lawyer, you’re going to be a doctor, you know, follow daddy’s footsteps, and it’s okay to work for some and others get choices. But we don’t realize as parents that we modeled the whole time. We’re always modeling. We heard that in a video that we don’t teach, we model. So they see you being successful, but they don’t kind of understand what it takes or that you love what You do, and they may not love real estate or business or medicine or whatever, but they feel like they have to, or they feel like the measuring stick is the same one that they’re using for you. And they can get a lot of anxiety, they can think that they have to do not necessarily what daddy or mommy does. But they have to be that successful, and they don’t need to sort of understanding that success is, you know, is a lot of things other than money and a lot of things other than titles. And if you don’t actually kind of take the time to understand, cause they’re not going to ask you, because they’ve never been through this before. They’re just watching, they’re not going to ask you. So you know, they can do whatever they want, you know you don’t have to do what I do. Success is a lot of things. And I’d mentioned that because it goes anywhere from a little anxiety all the way up to you know, committing suicide, there’s 20 to 25-year-old kids. So it’s kind of a real thing, and something you need to be cognizant of as a parent.

Mike Ayala: Wow. Yeah, that’s valuable sage advice. Well, yeah, I really appreciate your time and all the wisdom, and it’s been a great conversation. What’s the best way for people to find you?

Dr. Tom Burns: So got a website, it’s called www.richdoctor.com. And if you want to send an email to me, just send an email to hello@richdoctor.com, and I’ll get it and be happy to communicate.

Mike Ayala: I love it. If you text, the words Rich Doctor to 480-5317-159. I’ll send a free copy of Dr. Tom’s book to the first 10 people that text me that.

Dr. Tom Burns: Excellent, excellent.

Mike Ayala: Well, I appreciate your time and the wisdom and just your generosity as always.

Dr. Tom Burns: Mike I could talk to you all day. We probably will when this is over. All right man.

Mike Ayala: Thank you, sir.

Dr. Tom Burns: Thank you.

More from this show

Episode 112