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Hosted by
Mike Ayala

In this episode, Mike Ayala invites George Bryant on the show who reveals tips and tricks around digital marketing and social media. Plus he dives deep into his story and gives a load of advice for entrepreneurs and business owners.

George says that we are all tribal creatures. We live in a connected world. However, if the connection is not appropriately utilized, our world is the epitome of disconnection. Unless we go deep and connect with others, then we are losing. The most significant needle mover for George is authentic relationships. These people never accept George’s mediocracy or excuses.

Then, George reveals some secrets about his coaching. Every single person he helps he asks them these questions:

Can you think of an Olympic gold medalist who doesn’t have a coach?
Can you think of an Olympic coach that has a gold medal?

Later, George reminds us that we only exist where the world is paying attention. In today’s day and age, the only place that people pay attention to is digital. No one is looking at billboards, commercials, and signage. Even when we are allowed to go to events, people are looking at social media.

“The greatest impact of my success would be authentic relationships with people that hold me to my biggest power and don’t except my mediocracy or excuses.”


  • [ 4:15 ] About George’s most significant influence
  • [ 5:20 ] Why authentic relationships are essential to success
  • [ 10:45 ] No one else will save you + your value will never be predicated on someone else’s views
  • [ 12:55 ] All about George Bryant
  • [ 20:55 ] Why you need an online personal brand
  • [ 25:40 ] You may hate social media, but you need to use it
  • [ 30:40] The speed + evolution of business
  • [ 35:50 ] We are responsible for what we create
  • [ 41:05 ] Tips for social media
  • [ 52:50 ] Yes, you can still be authentic on social media
  • [ 61:30 ] Nothing transformational can come from a transaction


George Bryant helps brands ethically scale by guiding entrepreneurs to develop deeper relationships with their customers, employees, and themselves. His trademark, Relationships Beat Algorithms is the core of what he teaches his private mastermind, corporate clients, and his digital community.

In George’s community, they focus on helping customers accomplish their goals BEFORE a purchase is made. Then take them on a journey that creates a meaningful transformation in their life forever. As a result, George’s brands dominate their markets by gaining & keeping customers for life and collectively generating billions of dollars.

George’s podcast |

George’s LinkedIn |

Join George’s Relationships Beat Algorithms community |

George’s Facebook |


Mike Ayala: Thank you for joining me on the investing for freedom podcast. I am super excited about the show today. I’ve got a guest on his name is George Bryan and my relationship with George Bryan is a lesson for me. You never know when you meet somebody when or how they’re going to come back into your life. So when I met George, I was actually at a, I believe it was a brand builder summit. He can confirm that, but I think it was brand builder summit with Ryan Moran. And I stood in line patiently for a couple hours as he was, just doling out free advice and everybody was coming at him just asking all these questions. Cause he just, he was on a panel and him of all people, he was just giving away so much information. And so I waited, my son for those of you that don’t know as a professional wake surfer and he was kind of getting into online marketing. And so I wanted to pick George’s brain. So I patiently waited, and I think George was like, who’s this creeper that’s just like staring at me for two hours. But I was wanting to approach George on behalf of my son, but then I fast forward two or three years later and I realized that like all of us are in the online business space. And so George has become an advisor to, I just watch everything he’s doing, so much wisdom. So without further ado, George, I appreciate you being here. And just sharing with our audience.

George Bryan: I am stoked man. No, like not creepy, like the patients award. Like I saw you the whole time. I was like, who is Mr. Miyagi back there? Like just waiting. Everybody else was like running up and running up and you are like, just patient. I was like, I wanted to know about you. And I was like, Oh, this guy’s not like bum rushing me out the door. It was awesome. And it’s been a gift. Like it went from keynote, it was brand builder or something. I think it was August a couple of years ago. And then now we share dinners. We have the same taste in beautiful wine. We have that. We make recommendations. We have fun conversations till 2:00 AM in the morning. And like I could never replace that. So it’s been a gift, man. I’m excited to be here.

Mike Ayala: It’s awesome when connections like this are made and it’s funny cause I put up a post a while back about one of my favorite wines and George Bryan was like, no, go get this one next time. And so a few weeks later I had some friends coming over for dinner and I sent him a picture. I said, look at the wine I got. And he said, funny enough, I just landed in Phoenix, come on over.

George Bryan: It was that Serendipity, alignment we’ll call it. It was destined to be there, it was awesome. It was awesome, man.

Mike Ayala: Well, Hey listen. I appreciate all the value you bring in. I think it’s going to be no different today. So I’m really excited for my listeners, but questions first, who’s had the greatest impact on your life.

George Bryan: My wife, hands down. No doubt. My wife is an angel. God sent soul, wisest, accepting goddess of a woman. That is the sole reason that not only am I here and successful, but I’m alive. She’s the first person that ever saw me. Not the story, not the abuse, not the fears, not the insecurities and was willing to stand in that to basically fight a rabid Pitbull with rabies and be like, you can bite me all you want, but I know you ain’t going to get through. And my wife has, I’m going to start crying already. My wife saved my life, saved my life hands down.

Mike Ayala: Well, that’s amazing.
George Bryan: Her name is Lindsay Jean, because she deserves a name. She’s not

my wife. She is Lindsay Jean.
Mike Ayala: I thought that’s what it was, but I didn’t want to slaughter it.

George Bryan: Yeah. And I couldn’t even like, she was too much of a goddess to even worry about taking my last name. I feel like I should be George Jean, not George Bryan. Like I’m at that point when I’m getting ready to take it, except I built a brand around my name, but I would go there at this point. I’m there.

Mike Ayala: Good for Lindsey. Good for you. So if you could narrow it down to one thing that’s had the greatest impact on your success, what would it be?

George Bryan: The greatest impact on my success would be authentic relationships with people that hold me to my biggest power and don’t accept my mediocrity or excuses like you. Like you’ve had a dramatic impact on my life, whether you know it or not from the space that you hold the way in which you see me, the way in which you value your family, your relationship, your business, the way in which you carry yourself. It’s like through osmosis, like I can’t come over and be like a little punk. I can’t fall back into the patterns like, Oh, Mike’s watching. And the moment I get out of line, Mike’s like, are you sure? And I’m like, so, for me, I think especially like in entrepreneurship, but life in general, we’re tribal creatures. And I think it’s something that we live in this very connected world per se, but it really is the epitome of disconnection if it’s not utilized. And so, being on a phone and being on social media tip, tapping and texting is great, but unless you’re going deep and getting connected and being around people, you’re

kind of losing. And so the way I see it is, cliché quotes all day, I can’t even give credit to whoever says it, but who you are around really speaks to what it is. And I’d say the single-handed biggest needle mover for me everywhere has always been authentic relationships with people that see me for my greatness and also will not accept my mediocrity and excuses.

Mike Ayala: I love that. People are listening right now, but you’re actually wearing a shirt unapologetically authentic.

George Bryan: Yeah. This is back in the day when I owned that food Blog and I was finding my voice for the first time and I was trying to figure out how to carve out space in this world and share about bulimia and sexual abuse and all that stuff from place of power. And it was hard having millions of followers and being like, okay, I’m going to say this. I want to say this. And I was like coaching myself every day. So I basically made clothing to remind myself what to be and do every day. So yeah, my hoodie says unapologetically authentic.

Mike Ayala: I love it, man. What was your greatest setback and what’d you learn from it?

George Bryan: Oh man, I have to pick one. I’m like we could be here for 16
hours. The one that had the most dramatic impact on my life was a combination of a few, but I built a massively successful food blog called civilized caveman. I was a 22-week New York times bestseller, number one app in the world featured by Apple, top health app of 2015, literally 5 million [07:45 inaudible] a month, 2 million social media followers. Well, I was losing 30 grand a month because I was playing for my ego and ended up with my wife eight months pregnant and two weeks away from bankruptcy. And all because of my ego, all because of my fear of sharing my feelings, my fear of saying, I don’t know, my fear of being my authentic self. And I wish I could have said it was a one-day thing where I learned that lesson, but it was like two and a half years of, a lot of pain both internally and caused in the world because, I was basically a walking in congruence, but I hadn’t realized it yet. Like I wanted to open my heart. I wanted to work in the world. I wanted to help people, but I had so much on resolve trauma and feelings that I couldn’t really. And so I took a company that I built some multiple seven figures and massive success based on my quote unquote, Instagram life. And then behind the scenes, it was just sabotage and depression and anxiety. And it was a gift that I got to that point. It was a gift that I got there that my wife has literally two weeks away from giving birth to our son. And I was like, okay, we’re either going to lose the house or something has to shift. And I think it was the first time in my life that

I actually cared about something other than myself, like my wife, my child. And it was a very freeing and invigorating and scariest crap feeling. But I leaned into it and, that day changed my life forever. And I remember the day, I was in a room of 22 people, you know most of them. [09:18 inaudible] them here. And I was like, why did I get invited to this room? Like there’s 22 of the most successful people I’ve ever met in my life ever in this room. And one of my friends invited me and everyone’s going around the horn. Like how’s business, how’s business, how’s life. And I just remember I had like zero filter left. I was just so gone. Like what it felt like is like I had to do my own intervention, but I had nothing left, nothing to fight for, nothing to hold on for. And it came to me and I probably gave a 15-minute verbal vomiting diatribe of like everything that was wrong, how I was failing. And it was like, I lost 50 pounds that day. And then somebody just came up to me one moment. And they’re like, why do you feel like that? You’re so smart. Like, why do you build it for everybody else? Why don’t you just teach people what you know? And I was like, what do you mean? And then that became the kickstart of my now very illustrious consulting career. But that moment changed everything for me. And I’d say the biggest lesson that I learned, the biggest takeaway for me is that there is zero chance of happiness or success with unexpressed or suppressed emotions and living in congruently to who you really want to be.

Mike Ayala: Man. That’s so good. Thank you for sharing that. Appreciate it. So, last one and then we’ll get into just talk. I like to do the four questions cause it usually opens up a ton of stuff to talk about. What is the piece of advice you find yourself sharing the most?

George Bryan: The piece of advice that I find myself sharing the most, twofold, no one else is going to save you and your value will never be predicated on somebody else’s views or execution.

Mike Ayala: Wow, that’s good.

George Bryan: That’s probably the wisest and like a little bit of context. I had to learn the second one, the no one will save you. I’ve learned every day for my life. Like I’ve been through it, but the second one, a very wise man, Adam Markel actually got to give credit, Adam Markel. I remember my first consulting client was men’s health and by complete circumstance, happenstance, I gave a keynote, they were in the audience and I was like, Hey, I’ll help you for free cause I want the title. And I looked at them square in the eye and they’re like, Oh, can you help them? Oh yeah, I can totally help them. Like how do we know? I’m like, well, I’ll just prove it to you. And you can just pay me when I’m done. And luckily, I was

really good, and I got paid and I remember coming home and him and I were working at one point and he looked me dead in the eye and he said, no more. No more devaluing yourself, no more thinking that you have to prove it. No more thinking that like a result dictates it. And then Jeff Spencer became a friend of mine and I always use this analogy for every entrepreneur, anybody listening right now. I use this for everybody I coach, everybody I help. And I was like,

[11:59 inaudible], Oh, I’ve never done it before, I haven’t done it. I said, okay, cool. I said, name me one Olympic gold medalist that doesn’t have a coach. And they’re like, well, I can’t. I’m like great, name me one of their coaches that has a gold medal. And then everybody’s like, jaw hits the floor and I’m like, I can name you maybe three. And, you don’t have to have played on the field to see the field. And if you know something and if you see something and if you feel something and you trust yourself and know it’s to be true. Then you have to take that stand and own it all the way because you’re holding confidence and possibility for somebody else. And the moment you doubt yourself or think that your value is only if they execute it, you set them up to fail and you set yourself up to fail. And it’s probably the most valuable piece of advice I’ve ever gotten in my journey of entrepreneurship.

That’s amazing, and super powerful. So take us backwards. I’ve learned a lot about you just listening and sitting on the peripheral, but where’d you come from, give us a little bit of background.

Yeah, since this isn’t a Joe Rogan show, we’re going to go with the elevator version. So I grew up in Massachusetts, two parents who loved me immensely, but in doing the best that they did, I ended up in a world of drug abuse and physical abuse, emotional abuse and sexual abuse. And it was pretty rough. I was bullied. I spent the first three years of school being the only white kid in my class, my front teeth were knocked out three times. Then I moved to the white neighborhoods and I was now the outcast with an overbite, a drug addictive family who got beat up and bullied every day. So then my nose is broken twice. And so I don’t really like school. I didn’t really love it, really funny, I’m friends with every one of them now. And I’ve coached most of them, which is really funny. Oh, that’s a different podcast. And so when I was about 12, my brother was five years younger. I realized that there was nothing there for me and nobody was really going to take care of me. So I got my first job, started working like my entrepreneurial, I would hit like four paper routes when I was 12. Like I would get up at 4:00 AM and I would walk the neighborhoods before I got a ride to school, like at 12 years old, trying to make money. And so I was kind of had this like survival mindset of like, I’ll figure it out, I’ll figure it out. And so I did the best that I could there. It was

rough. And then when I was 17, I realized like there was nothing there for me. I was already struggling with bulimia, because I was sexually abused and a few other things. And so I forged my parents’ signature to join the Marine Corps or try to, but I was overweight. And so that feds [14:22 inaudible] addiction or bulimia, and then I ended up making the way and shipping and I was like, yeah, that’s a good path. Let’s go from dysfunctional childhood to the most organized, dysfunctional thing on the planet, which is the United States Marine Corps. And so I left when I was 18, joined the Marine Corps, spent 12 years in the Marine Corps on active duty, three combat deployments, almost lost my legs in 2004 in Somalia. I ended up, six surgeries, wheelchair for 12 months, addiction, attempted suicide, gained a hundred pounds. Then they said you’re done. And I was more scared of getting out than I was of staying in and doing the work. So I made a full recovery. I ended up doing an iron man, tied a world record, fast forwarded to another deployment to Afghanistan, got hurt again. Had seven concussions in three years, traumatic brain injury, bleeding in my brain, fluid in my brain. And so after that deployment in 11 years, so like, Hey, you know, it’s been fun, but you’re kind of damaged goods at this point. And I was like, Oh, sweet. I’m going to get retired. They’re like, no, no, we’re just separating you. And I was like, what do you mean? Like, it’s been fun, but you’re out your way out the door. At that point, I had found paleo and CrossFit and I was like trying to really take charge of my health. My dad had passed away from cancer, hadn’t talked to my mom in 16 years. And some things just really had to shift in my life. And my dad dying and then my deployment to Afghanistan was a big catalyst for me. I witnessed things in Afghanistan that no human should ever have to see. And luckily, I’m too chicken poop to ever take my own life. Like I’ve had thoughts about it [15:47 inaudible]. But I never wanted to do it, but it was my way of screaming for help. So I realized in that moment that I’m here, this has happened to me, where this has happened for me. This life here is a gift and a tool if I use it. And so I started teaching myself how to cook. I was like, I’m going to beat my bulimia. I’m going to take care of myself. And so when I came home from Afghanistan, I was like, Oh, I need accountability. I’ll just post recipes on the internet. So I’ve made a Facebook account with a fake college account. Cause it was 2009. So I wouldn’t go to college. I pulled the trigger for a living. So I went and made like a fake email address, got a Facebook account. I just started posting on Facebook. And, for six months I just posted a recipe every day, holding myself accountable. Cause I was like, if I post it, they won’t know, but I’m eating clean and I’m not in my addiction. And then, six months later it was like, God, I really wish you had these recipes easy. And I’m like, you should start a blog. I’m like, what’s a blog? Like, go to It’s like 2010. And I was like, okay. So I signed up, I moved everything from Facebook over to and gave it this stupidest business

name in the world, which was Good luck spelling that. By the way, eight years later ended up just civilized caveman. But I did that. And then the Marine Corps said, Hey, it’s been fun. We’re going to medically separate you. And at this point I didn’t really know what to do. I had enough saved to have like a year of living. And then I made my first digital product in 2011. And I remember I made my annual salary on day one and I was like, I’m out, I’m done. I have no idea what this means. I have no idea what I’m going to do. I don’t even know what I did, but I’m going to go explore this. And I’d taken all the recipes on my website and I saved them as a word document, upload it to click bank. Cause somebody said they wanted to pay for them all in one place. And I was like, why would you do that? They’re all free on my website. They’re like, Oh, but I’m paying for convenience. You’ve worked hard to give us all this value. We want to give back to you. And that was literally the kickstart of my ecommerce career. And so that was 2011. And from that point forward, I taught myself everything. Web design, digital marketing, affiliate marketing, email marketing, social media marketing. And I ran that company for, until that point of like the biggest lesson I learned and ended up generating a lot of revenue, became a 22- week New York bestseller, number one app, 5 million [17:51 inaudible] a month, about three, I’d say like two and a half to 3 million social media followers aggregate. I even got a free trip to Pinterest. Cause I had the number one pinned recipe on their website. It had like 2 billion pins. And so they flew me and my wife up there and asked me what I was doing. And the truth was that, because I didn’t have a background in any of this, I kind of won by default and ignorance. And so I didn’t know that there were funnels and copy and traffic. All I knew is that if I showed up consistently every day and helped people that eventually reciprocity would work and it kind of became the basis for everything I do today. So I ended up spending seven days in the jungle in silence and solitude. After those defining moments and made a decision to walk away, I gave away that company as a Christmas gift, I deleted all my social media, changed my phone number, changed my email in 2017 and I just disappeared for two and a half years. And in the meantime, everybody had found out about my consulting, what I had done and had me come do it. So I got to work with companies like men’s health,

[18:51 inaudible] Reebok, Adidas on it, vital proteins. And the list goes on. Mike knows some of them, but either way I just got to use the skillset to help people have a bigger message. And it put my ego in check, got me a line to what I wanted to do. And what I really want to do is help people. It didn’t have to be about me. And so I’ve helped now over 500 companies had seven, eight, nine, and $2 billion companies or two unicorns with my digital marketing strategy and teaching them that relationship speed algorithms. And now my mission is to help entrepreneurs

ethically scale their business any way that they can. And that brings us to here.

Mike Ayala: Man, I don’t care how many times I hear that. I’m just like, I’m blown away. So we could, I mean, this could be 15 shows just from literally I had dinner with George, I don’t know, six or eight weeks ago or something. And I mean for like six hours straight, my mind was just blown. So I have to try to like, I have to try to like…

George Bryan: We can just start an entire, another show, you and I can do this all day, but then we’re going to have to do your side too. [19:49 inaudible] just can’t be my side.

Mike Ayala: So here’s an observation that I have, and I really wanted to ask you this. So a while back, I still think that there’s a big percentage of people. So you were an early adopter of online marketing. All of that. I still, I mean, we’re sitting in July and Covid, I think has accelerated this by all of us going home and getting forced onto the digital platform. But I still, I’m part of a mastermind group of very, very successful men. And a lot of these guys, they’re very successful business guys, but very few of them are doing anything, Instagram, Facebook online, any of that, they’re not marketing their businesses online. None of it. And I have conversations every single week where people are like, they have so much to offer and they just don’t see the value still of moving online. And so here’s my direct question for you. We can come back because I know you’ve got so much value to give us about how people could get there. But do you believe everybody should be moving to some kind of personal brand, online space? Is if they’re not, are they going to get their ass kicked and left behind?

George Bryan: Yeah. So here’s why my answer would have been no a couple of years ago. But the truth is that, you only exist where the world is paying attention. And right now in today’s day and age, the only place people pay attention is digital. Nobody looks at billboards, nobody watches commercials. Nobody goes to meetups; nobody walks and looks at signage in stores. Nobody does networking events. Nobody goes to any of that stuff. Even when we go to events like industry events, what’s everybody doing, Hey, give me your phone. What’s your social, what’s it. And so I wish it was as simple as the person who runs the business, getting to make the decision, but it’s not. Because your product or your service is only as valuable as the perception of the market and where you can meet

them. And right now, and for the foreseeable future, until we have some Exodus of the Terminator and we just delete Skynet and it goes away, all of the attention is there. And the truth is it’s a gift. And the downside is, is that most people don’t

realize it’s a gift because people look at digital marketing, like it’s a new world. It’s the same world of relationships with a fast forward button. If you and I went back 50 years and we were friends, like we would be calling each other on the phone, we would walk or drive our car to a dinner or a coffee shop, have a conversation, go into the coffee shop, like, Oh, good to see you. That’s the only time we would ever see each other, we would get touchpoints like once a week. Now we live in a world where we can go deep fast, because we can get so many touch points in such a short amount of time that it’s truly a gift. It’s a curse when you think that it’s different or that like, somebody is like taking from you or it’s dangerous. Cause like you go back 50 years and you look at trains, nobody was on their phones. Everybody had the paper in front of their hands. Like the medium changed, but it’s all about the attention. And so, yeah, like I think there’s always going to be a subset of a market that can be created offline. You can do business offline. Of course it really depends on what you’re willing to put into it. Like if you’re going to travel, if you’re going to get on cold calls, if you’re going to be doing direct advertising, if you’re going to be hosting events, of course you can do it. I mean, I built a multi seven figure business three years ago without being online. Cause I deleted all my social media and then it started to dwindle because habits started to change. Everyone’s like, Oh, I’ve been heard about you. My friends, like all my friends asked, but they couldn’t find you and they couldn’t find you and they couldn’t find you. And so you have to go where the market is. Like you have to go where the people are. And unfortunately, we’re entrepreneurs, we’re business owners, we’re businesspeople. And as any business, any product or any service, you are not the one that gets to dictate the conversation. The people who are paying for your service dictate it. So if they’re on tik tok, your ass is going on tik tok, if they’re on Instagram, you’re on Instagram. If they’re in Timbuktu and they will only come to an event, well, you have to put an event on in Timbuktu or you got to change your business, it’s kind of adapt or die. And you know the romanticism of it is dangerous. It’s dangerous. Cause this game changes every day. I mean you invest; we have businesses, we have everything. The market changes tomorrow. A new technology comes out, a new social media app comes out. And so it’s just pivotal to understand that digital is an extension. It’s a way to communicate. It’s a way to reach out and touch people, like ET phone home, foundationally. Your business is going to be the same. You’re just changing the light per se, out of your lighthouse that I say, or the way in which people find you to get them back into that spot. So that’s how I see it.

Mike Ayala: And typically as an entrepreneur, I mean, whether it was civilized caveman or anything else you’re doing, I mean, you do what you do because you’re so passionate about it and you want to help people change. And the sad part about

it is, I believe that if people don’t get a hold of this and I’m not an early adopter, I was a very late adopter. Even when I met you. The reason why I so patiently waited in line is because I didn’t want to waste your time. And I know you would have never thought about it that way, but I didn’t know you from Adam. I didn’t want to waste your time because I literally had a question that revolved around my son who didn’t even have a business at that point in time. And so I just, I wanted to be very like respectful of your time because, even though I have real estate and a private equity company at that point in time, I wasn’t thinking that I needed you. I was approaching you because I had a question for my son and that’s why I was so,
I guess patient. But that being said, I talked to so many entrepreneurs that are still resistant to this and you just said something that’s so interesting and amazing. We’re passionate about whatever it is we do. We want to help change lives. And that’s usually why people get into business. It’s almost never about money. And if it is about money, you’re probably in the wrong business. So that being said, if people can’t find you as an entrepreneur, they’re going to go to the second best or the third best or the fourth best option for them. And so I’m going to let you wrap on that.

George Bryan: I’m about to jump on the biggest soap box and give them like a monologue on this. But the truth is, is that I hate social media. Like I hate it, but I have a moral obligation. Like I can’t wake up in the morning and be like, I’m committed to helping a million entrepreneurs ethically scale their business only if they find me the way that I want them to find me. That is a lie. And so whether it’s, and I think that the secret to it Mike, is self-integrity. Like really, it’s self-integrity. It’s like, okay, I don’t like social media. Like I don’t like sometimes having a brainstorm. There’s times I want to brain dump. But other times I’m like, Oh man, I got to do this. I going to do this. I’m like, yes, I have to do this. This is congruency, like, this is the path. In order to get to the other side, you have to be where they are. And so, yeah, like the thing that drives me nuts, it’s not even like I love, and

an entrepreneur comes at me, like, listen, I hate social media. I don’t want to do this. I’m like, you’re going to succeed. I’m like, I guarantee you like 100% you’re going to succeed. It’s the one that’s come up to me like, Oh, I love it. Like I want to do it, I want to be everywhere. And you know, it’s like, no, none of us like it, like we want to make money. But making money is a byproduct of helping somebody go from where they are to where they want to be with you inserting a solution that isn’t about you. It’s about the product and making them the hero. And so you have to think about this. There is no business without customers. Like I’m pretty sure right now that the $70 billion that are spent in advertising right now on commercials would love it if they could just keep buying commercials, they can’t, they have to keep shifting the energy because everybody’s got TiVo and Hulu and

Netflix and [27:16 inaudible]. And so they’re forced to adapt. And so I think the biggest step here is like just first off, checking it, like just checking it. And I think this is a conversation that’s not had enough. I think a lot of the times when people get into digital media, digital marketing are realizing that’s the game is because somebody else said it was a good idea or they’re actually a little misaligned or unclear on where they want to go. Oh, if I do this, I’m going to scale and do whatever I’m like, or you could do it the way you want reduce expenses and live the same lifestyle. So like, it starts with checking it. And when you’re really authentically, like I want to help people. I want to serve people. It doesn’t matter what it looks like, where we have to go, how we have to make it happen. Just like I tell people the analogy I use, if you have kids, like there are plenty of times at 3:00 AM when my three-year-old walks in and says, daddy, I have to pee. And I’m like, you’ve been peeing by yourself for a year. Why are you waking me up at 3:00 AM? Then I don’t want to get out of bed. But he asks me to, and I’m like, Oh, you know what? This is my commitment as a parent. I carry that same resolve into everything that I touch in business. Because when we make a declaration, like I’m an entrepreneur, like this is what I do. I help entrepreneurs ethically scale. I help them invest in real estate. I help them change their life. I help them lose 30 pounds. You are making a moral stamp in the universe that says, I will do everything in my power agnostic of credit card to help them get there. And if you don’t believe that, then what you need to say is I’m going to help people lose 10 pounds only if they pay me X amount of dollars and meet me here. That’s it. And listen, I have friends that say that now, because I said that, and they’re massively successful because they completely be trusted. Like it’s congruent, it’s aligned. I’ve even done it. I’m like, you will not find me on X platform. Like, I love that you’re there. I can’t be there. And it really just comes from that check in for me. So that’s kind of how I see it.

Mike Ayala: I love how you see it. That’s straight from the mind of George guys. I love it. So I was thinking about this a while back. I remember my first business was a plumbing and heating company and things changed so fast. I think businesses used to change over the course of decades. Like everything would change in a decade. Right now, things are changing so fast we have to stay on the front end of this. And I remember my first business, plumbing and heating and, and Dylan Burns my content guy actually asked me a question a while back. He’s like, when you started your plumbing company, were you just passionate about plumbing? I was like, no, like who gets excited about plumbing. I was literally passionate and excited about offering a better level of service, an easier process for my clients because I saw people frustrated. I was frustrated as a guy in the field because I would show up and they didn’t take good notes on dispatch. And so for

me, it was all about the dispatch process. And I used to tell my employees all the time, we have to make it easy for our customers to do business with us. Because if people have to fight an uphill battle to give you their money, that’s going to be a problem. And so when you bring this over into this day and age, that goes back. I mean, it’s so mind blowing for me because we have to make it easy for people to engage with us. We have to be very clear. I think the whole marketing message has been overplayed to this. I think we have to craft these like 27-word sentences on what we really do. And people are confused. I work with, there’s a couple of experts that I’ve been working with lately and I’m still confused about what they do. And so I love how you just make it simple and just bring it down to that.

George Bryan: Yeah. I think what’s really, the two things I want to unpack with what you said. Number one is the speed and adaptation of business. And then number two, when you hit that you weren’t passionate about plumbing, so with the speed and evolution of business, well, prior to this, the feedback loop was only when we met with people on the weekends to talk about our experience. So for seven days or 14 days or 21 days, when you had that plumber, that was the best plumber in the world until your friends told you there was a better one. And so what happened is that we increased communication, which also increased the level of accountability that is there and holding all of us to a higher standard, because people have the ability to handle your reputation and people like, Oh, they leave negative reviews. I’m like, great, don’t be a dick. Like, you’re welcome. Like when I see a negative review, I see a customer that wasn’t heard, seen or respected. And I’m like, you can have a disagreement with a customer and still not get a negative review if you respect them and you hear them. I’m like it’s feedback. And I was like, the fact that you’re calling me means it landed. So you might want to take a look at it. So if I call you a purple dinosaur, you don’t get upset. But if I’m like, Oh man, like your bill, everything late. No, I don’t, go look in the mirror. That landed. And so like, that’s the part of it. So in that, once that started happening, what also started happening is the companies that weren’t built on a solid foundation, but were living in transaction, had to start adjusting and reacting every single day because their value with their customer was predicated on something that wasn’t solid. It was transactional. It was shallow. And so when all that starts to happen, the customer has no reason to have loyalty or depth because there’s no substance there. And so, you’re welcome. Welcome to integrity. It’s the same thing with the relationship. You have to have substance and depth and something there, which leads me to the next point, which you said is like, you weren’t interested in plumbing, you were interested in making their life better, making them easier. And that’s probably the biggest mistake I see companies make today. Companies insert themselves as a solution rather than their service as the medium to get to a deeper

solution. Like you can go unplug somebody’s toilet. That’s great. Awesome. But underneath it, if you made their life easier, it gave them peace of mind. You gave them safety or communication, like whatever it is that it’s there, and even if you can’t fix the toilet, they’re still going to love you. And that’s the invitation to go deep. And like people say this to me all the time, like having a service base or a product-based business, that’s all about the product, you’re like, Oh, it’s going to work. It’s going to work. It’s going to work. I’m like, okay, cool. Well, imagine if Apple only let you in the store, if you bought a product. 99% of their traffic in their stores, people coming to touch and touch and touch and touch and be a part of an experience until they’re ready to buy. Apple’s not like, Oh, we want to make technology easier for you only if you give us your credit card. Because it’s deeper than that. And every company gets to go deeper than this. And like

[33:36 inaudible] no, everything’s deeper. Like nobody needs your shoes. Nobody needs your supplements. They want them because there’s a deeper core belief or a deeper problem that they’re trying to solve, find resolution for, or find leadership through. And I think the invitation now and like kind of the current state of the world is really hit a fast forward button because the way that I see it, when all this stuff got locked down, the wizard of Oz curtains got pulled down quick, really, really quick. And there were some people with their pants at their ankles. And I was like, ha ha, like welcome to the world. There’s an invitation for you here to see, like, to see what the world is really asking for. People don’t want to be tricked. They don’t need to be convinced. They need to be enrolled. And you can’t enroll somebody in like a sushi roll, but you can enroll somebody in like living a better life and not being a medium. Like you’ve got to go deep, and you’ve got to understand the motivators. You got to get deeper than the surface. Like you can tell me all day, like, you’re like, Oh, my customers are angry, or they’re inconvenienced. No, that’s not what they say if I ask your customer how they feel, they’re going to be like, I’m so stressed, I don’t think I’m going to make it home to my family tonight. I have no idea how I’m going to put dinner on the table. I’m like, that’s the depth that’s required in digital marketing. And digital media is a gift where we get to do that fast. We get to insert ourselves at the solution. We get to get immediate feedback on what’s working and what’s not working. And guess what? If it doesn’t work, you don’t have to go invest $10,000 in a direct mail campaign. You just change the copy on an ad or a social post two minutes later and you figure out what worked.

Mike Ayala: So good. You’re always talking about how relationships beat algorithms. And when you just said, you’re talking about that business owner or whatever, that’s always talking about their customers. I love that you always bring it back to relationships. Cause I don’t care if it’s a business owner. I was thinking

about how many times I’ve worked with business owners that are constantly complaining about their employees. You can’t find good employees. You can’t find good employees. And then you brought it back to personal relationships too. A lot of times you see people that just always complaining about their relationships. That’s what I really appreciate about you even that relationships beat algorithms. It’s so good because I don’t, when I hear somebody, you just can’t find good employees. Well, that’s bullshit. Because I understand it, but the reality is…

George Bryan: How about you make a better culture? Here is the thing you can sit here and tell me all day that that three-year-old is a terror. I don’t see a terror. I see somebody in a broken home. Like you can tell me all day that that 14-year-old is acting out. I see somebody that didn’t have their needs met. Like everybody’s so quick to advocate their responsibility and the environment that they’ve created. And that’s not the path forward. I’m blessed that I learned this lesson. I was a Marine with 55 Marines, and I wasn’t allowed to fire anybody. It didn’t matter if we liked each other, hated each other. Like I had to keep them for three years and we had to work together and trust me, I had one of them load a rifle and stick it in my mouth at 4:00 AM when I walked in the office one day, like it wasn’t easy stuff. Like it’s stressful situations, combat, death, like things like this. Like, we all have to take a look in the mirror and realize that anything that’s around us, we’re responsible for creating, like we’re responsible for it. Like you tell me that you can’t find a good employee. I tell you an employee that doesn’t have their needs met or wasn’t properly vetted into the culture, wasn’t supported, wasn’t maintained or wasn’t trained. And I watch this all the time and I’m like, you can tell me this all day. It’s the reason why you hire four different employees all with the same result. That’s probably the reason why you’ve been in three different relationships that all ended the same. And you’ve probably had three different bosses that somehow all had the same problem. At some point in this. Like, it doesn’t matter if you’re an employee, doesn’t matter if you’re an entrepreneur, doesn’t matter if you’re a business partner, doesn’t matter what it is, we have to look in the mirror and realize that like what shows up in our life we are responsible for. And yeah, like sometimes it’s a hard concept to grab. Don’t worry. I’ve plenty of nights in the pillow crying about Boo hoo me and life’s happening to me and it’s here. But yeah, like we do it together sometimes. And so like when we get there, that’s fine. But at the end of the day, when we come back, like nobody’s coming in to save us. And if we take everything that happens in our life and in our businesses feedback, not personally, nowhere did I say personally, just because I have a culture in my company and my employees aren’t happy doesn’t mean I’m a bad person. It means that I haven’t played the right play from the playbook for that part of the game. And so everything that comes in of like, Oh, I wish you had this, or you should’ve

done this, or you shouldn’t have said this is feedback. That’s a gift. That’s a gift. And so if the feedback that you’re getting right now is like, I can’t find a good employee. I’m like, Hey, you probably can’t. And I was like, but would you work for you? Would you work for you? I was like, would you sit there in that soap box and take advice from you. Would you watch somebody speak about what they say, and not do what they do and I’m guilty of it. Like I have to do this. Luckily my team is the first one to kick me in the shins and be like, I’m not listening to you. And they have every right to do that. But I think really relationships, the reason I say it and I trademarked it, it’s actually funny I got the trademark the other day, it was sitting in a PO box for a year and a half. And I found a key and went and opened the box that it was sitting in there. It’s hilarious. But when we think about like relationships, I say this, I said this actually at the keynote that I met Mike. I said, nobody has a marketing problem. Everybody has a relationship problem with themselves, their team and their customers informed in that order.

And at the end of the day, the success of your business is not predicated on how many sales it makes. It’s predicated on how you lead the team or led yourself to create that energy and context that allowed that transformation for that customer. That’s really what it is. Like, selling, effective selling is just a positive transference of energy. That’s really what it is. Like meeting somebody where they are and taking them somewhere different. And so like I see people all the time, like my ads don’t work and I was like, well, look at your team, you put it up like, do you have a voice? No, I wouldn’t do this. Like, everything starts with us. Like we have to own ourselves first. Then we move down to, now that we own ourselves and we lead ourselves first, then we can get into inspiring, educating, supporting our team and, or our customers. But it has to start with us. And I’m going to tell you right now, the gift of digital marketing is that you can’t be a snake in the grass, the grass isn’t tall enough anymore. So you can sit here and talk about all day, like you can sit and be like, Oh, I’m doing this, I’m doing this. But the Internet’s here. So they’re going to be like, you don’t do this. I just saw you post this. I saw you eat this, I’m out.

Mike Ayala: I think the natural tendency, and this goes back to what we were talking about, I love that you pointed it out. The natural tendency I think for, we’ve been taught for so many generations to just be quiet. Don’t share our wins. Don’t talk too loudly about ourselves. And I think that’s why a lot of business owners resist this, but I really want to point this out and just get your take on it too, so there’s two things. I think business owners that are resisting the move to online media or digital marketing or whatever you want to call it. Number one, I think we’ve already established, they need to pull their head out of the sand and make that move and also simultaneously clean up whatever it is that you don’t want seen,

fix it. Just fix it. Because you’re going to go out of business if you don’t. But taking this a little bit further, and this is what I really want to get your opinion on. I think business owners are also overwhelmed because we don’t understand it.

George Bryan: I am so glad you asked this. I’m so glad that you asked this. And here’s the thing, that’s cause all the quote, unquote gurus tell you that omnipresence is you being everywhere. Nothing like being 10% deep in 10 different places. Good luck getting results. I almost [41:03 inaudible]. So the first thing is that like, there’s no point in being anywhere if you can’t be all the way there. And so you do no justice to anybody. You, yourself, your team or your customers, if they’re like, I’m on Twitter, Pinterest, tik tok, email, website, Instagram, Facebook. No, like the first question I ask entrepreneurs, anybody who is like new to this, I’m like, what’s the first social media app you open your phone when you wake up and they’re like, Instagram. I’m like, great, Where do you think I’m going to tell you to go first? Instagram or Facebook. Because you are just like your avatar. You’re on the other side of that bridge. You’re on the other side of that river, you solved the problem that you’re now helping them solve. You’re on the other side. But your tendencies, your belief systems, your consumption modalities are probably pretty darn close to your avatar. And even if they’re not, your natural comfort and ability to what you know is the best way to create momentum. And so you have to earn the right to have a complicated business. You have to earn that shit, hands down. I watch people, I am launching an online business, [42:05 inaudible] they’re like I have seven websites, 14 funnels, 68 ad sets and seven social media platforms. And I’m managing all on my own, man, this is going to be fun. I’ll get my popcorn right now. And I don’t want that for anybody. At the end of the day, our job is really, really simple. We have a solution to a problem. That solution is a bridge. All we have to do is figure out where people are stuck and then park the bridge at that spot. And so Manhattan has 22 bridges in and out of Manhattan. But it wasn’t built with 22 bridges. It was built with one. And then people started driving over it and driving over it and driving over it. You have one solution, wherever it is that you are, where you will find where the commonplace or the pool of your amazing customers or potential customers are. And you go there, and you put yourself there a hundred percent all the way in, no matter what. There’s tactics, strategies, they’re all covered on my podcast. I give them away for free. Cause I’m silly like that. And you go meet them there and you go all the way in, and you have to earn the right to go. Let’s call that Instagram. You then have to earn the right to take that from Instagram to Facebook. And you know when, when the traffic is backed up and you can no longer send cars over that bridge, then that becomes a process and maintenance. And then you don’t take any energy away from it. You have to maintain it and then use the leftover to come build this second bridge for people.

And so, yeah, it’s really easy. Cause there’s so many firehoses and people like, Oh, you need 884 pieces of content a day and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I’m like, for nobody to see. And nobody to get responded to? Like, getting somebody’s attention only works if you’re there to catch the relationship. Like it’s literally like walking up to somebody, walking down the street and me being like, Hey Mike, how are you and running away so I can’t hear your response. Like why did I ask in the first place? And so really what it is that we got to set ourselves up to win, that’s it. You have an existing business, you’re not in digital. You’re already set up to win, because you’ve already solved the hardest part of the game. If your business is successful and you’re thinking about getting on digital, it means you already know your client. You already know the solutions, the path, what gets in their way and how they’re going to get there. So the only question you have to ask is like, okay, where are there more people like my ideal client hanging out? And you’re like, Oh LinkedIn. And it’s like, cool! Well, what are the big five things that got in the way of every one of my clients closing? And you’re like, boom, boom, boom, great. There’s my focus for the next five months. Each month, I’m going to focus on solving each one of these problems, giving out free content, answering questions, and then getting on calls with people and sure enough, you’ll 10X your business faster than you can think and be like, Oh man, I made this difficult. You don’t have to be everywhere. You have to be the place where you feel comfortable and where your customers are as deep as possible, so that you can nurture the same thing. And the easiest way, especially if you’re brick and mortar, it’s like you would never let somebody walk into your retail store and just stare at them and not engage, not ask questions. Like they walk up to you be like, Hey, what about this? And you just literally stare at them with a blank space. And I was like, but yet we watched companies do it on social media all the time. People comment, we don’t respond. They send us messages, we don’t respond. Like, Oh, I wonder why they don’t buy with us. Well maybe because you’ve trained them that you don’t care about them. So go deep, go deep and really be okay to learn as you go, like, this is an iterative game. Just like your business is, just like your marketing is, just like your customer journey as your books are, I mean, I’m still learning those lessons every day. Like all of these things are things that we’ve learned. Like you weren’t born this way, like wherever you’re listening to this and where you are in your business, as much as I’d like to think you were born this way, we’ve all worked very hard to learn lessons and iterations to get here and we have to remember that, that’s a part of the journey. And so when now you get to go start out as a kindergartener again, you get to be messy. You have full permission to be messy. It’s not about what it looks like or how overproduced it is. It’s about the value that it adds, meeting people where they are and having a very clear path forward. And you are just the catalyst, you’re the messenger and your job is to make your customer the hero, not you the

hero. And I’d say that would be the other side of it. So first simplify it, pick one, go deep. Second, don’t do what everybody else does. Do not start social media to be like, Hey, this is me. This is my car. This is my life. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody cares. Make it about them. The easiest way to win in digital marketing is ensuring that every single thing you do make sure customer the hero and you’re just there as the Mr. Miyagi. Like they’re the ones in the fight. They’re the ones in the game. And if you keep that, there’s no way to lose this game.

Mike Ayala: So good. I’m hearing, I’m hearing another little pushback that we get from business owners, well I don’t have time for social media. And as I’m listening to this with you, I’ve had this epiphany, we think we don’t have time for social media or interaction, but the reality is you can interact with so many more people that are your clients then you could, I’m just going back to old school methodology, like in order to really interact with a client at minimum, I’ve got to block out 15 minutes of my calendar. But when it comes to social media, number one, they’re engaging with us if we do it properly. And so this whole argument of, I don’t have time for that. It’s literally just, it’s as simple as blocking out 30 minutes a day or 15 minutes a day to just…

Mike Ayala: Yeah. Well, and here’s the thing, you’re in an advantage too. Like you blocked out 15 minutes to get on a call while you were on that call, you didn’t have the opportunity to see how many cats they had, dogs they had, what they did with their wife that weekend, where they ate out, send them their favorite coffee gift card, send them flowers, their favorite bottle of wine. Like literally digital marketing is like the cheat codes of Nintendo, like up, down, left, right, left, right, go. Like that’s literally what it is. People like, Hey, I’m showing you every part of me. And I just want you to care enough to pay attention and then help me get to the next point. The truth is, it’s just like anything in your life, the moment you tell yourself, you don’t have time to what you’re really saying is I don’t care enough to, and that goes back to the self-integrity piece. Like when I hear, I don’t have time, I don’t have money, I don’t have the energy. What I hear is like, great, you’re not enrolled and there’s still things a part of your process. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But like, if you’re going to make an excuse or have a justification or have a reason, it better be solid and the ducks better be in a row. And when I have asked anybody, like, I don’t have the time. I’m like, great, well, let me look at your calendar. And I was like, Oh, you spent four hours trying to book cold calls when you could have had 480 comments left on 480 different people’s posts just saying, Hey, I’m here to support you or recorded a piece of content or done it out there. Like, it’s literally giving you a megaphone in the old world. Like, I don’t know. It’s such an interesting concept because like, for me, I don’t want to sit here and

[48:49 inaudible] answer anything for anybody, but like, I still have those come up for me sometimes. Like I don’t have time. And the truth is, that’s probably one of the most dangerous statements that an entrepreneur can be allowed to make. Because really what we’re saying is it’s not important to me. And what I’ve found and why I love people in my life like this. Like I’ll just be sitting in my office in the middle of a meeting and my team will be on zoom with me and I’ll be like, Oh, I don’t have time. I’ll hear my wife from the other room. You don’t have time; you mean you don’t care. And I’m like, Oh man, all right guys, hold on. Let’s adjust. But that level of integrity is so important because really there’s only two buckets. This isn’t a hard game. You either want to do it or you don’t. It’s a yes or no, n no is an answer. Not no, because, like, just no. And that level of check-in either gets us really clear on what we want to do and gets us aligned to where we want to go or gets us really clear on the resistance that’s getting in our way. And most times like, Oh, I don’t know the [49:49 inaudible], I don’t understand it. Or I’m afraid of this. And I’m afraid of this. And the moment we get all of that out, it’s freeing, it’s growth. It’s like a Phoenix or a Lotus [49:59 inaudible] pick your metaphor today.

Mike Ayala: Well, and there’s such a mind block too, and you just said this, but we feel like in order to take that step in and to make it important to us, now we have to know everything about it. And that’s not true because back in the day when we bought phone book ads or billboards or TV ads, we didn’t have to know everything about it. We hired an expert; we hired a consultant. So and listen, I’ve got no dog in this hunt trying to convince business owners to get on social media, but here’s one, you said earlier authentic relationships. And I just want to throw this story out there and then just get your take on this. And then we’ll try to maybe pull this together. We could just go on for weeks, I think just listening to you. So when it comes to authentic relationships, I’m part of a group called gobundance and one of the six pillars is authentic relationships and completely different, but somewhat the same, abusive dad, like childhood issues. And my dad left when I was eight and I realized that I don’t even know, have I told you that?

George Bryan: No.

Mike Ayala: So I realized, I don’t know about two years ago that I thought I was fine. Like, I even remember when Kara and I got married, we’ve been married for 21 years now. She’s like, you need to go find your dad. I don’t want you to bringing this baggage into the marriage. And I’m like, I’m good. Like I’m good. And honestly, like, there’s a big part of me that was good and is good, but there’s some areas that I realized just a couple of years ago that I needed to work on. And one of them is authentic relationships. I was very closed off to having deep, meaningful,

authentic relationships. And so I found gobundance and one of the pillars was authentic relationships and there’s like 250 guys in gobundance, amazing organization. But back to social media and personal brand building, there’s people that will say that you can’t have authentic relationships, social media is ruining our relationships, everything else. And here’s what I’ll say to that. I’m somewhat of an introvert. I mean, if I’m one-on-one or there’s three or four of us, I’m great, but there’s nothing I hate more than walking into a room of 200 people and trying to elbow into that weird, awkward group of five guys in the corner that are really tight. And you’re like, Oh, Hey, sorry to interrupt can I get in here and you elbow in, I hate that. And so the thing that I’ve realized just with social media, and this will work with your customers, it works with, you can build relationship, you can get their attention. And not that you’re trying to get their attention, but you just get it. And through just having more, just drop adding value on really Instagram and Facebook and doing the podcast. I have people when I go to an event now coming and meeting me that I don’t know, I literally have had three people reach out to me today that I don’t even know who they are. They want to schedule phone calls and they want to talk about business. And I’m just like, so for the people that say that, like you can’t, it’s destroying the fabric of America. It’s taking away, authentic relationships, I say, bullshit. What do you say?

George Bryan: I say bullshit too. And I think there’s a reason because I think everybody has the wires crossed between intimacy and authenticity. And I think that that’s probably one of the biggest blocks that I see for people. When we say authenticity, what I see people go, I have to tell him my life, I have to tell him my story. No, there’s parts of your life that only belong in you, in your relationship and with the closest people. There are things that Mike knows about me that the world will never know. They can know the wrapping paper. But they don’t have to know the depth, the point of social media and authenticity is just being in integrity. And so, like I can say, and I’ll give a tangible example. I learned this lesson the hard way is that there were times where I was so open about my story, I actually pushed my customers away. Because they were like, I don’t want to be like that. I don’t want to talk about like that. Like I actually created shame unintentionally or like the thought of shame because I’m like, Oh, I was bulimic. And they’re like, Oh wait, I don’t want to follow this guy if that’s where I’m going to go. But there’s also when I understand that and I learned that, there’s parts of me like, Oh, I struggled with eating disorders for this or I struggle with this, that like my wife and Mike and those closest to me will know why and what got in the way. But then when I’m online, I can be like, and I struggled with an eating disorder or like when I was feeling like this. And so I think people, they’ll mistake that I see as a lot of people think like, Oh, if I’m going to be out there, I go all the way out there. Like, no, no,

there’s such things as privacy still, like there is an intimacy is the way that I describe it. And so, really that’s the only way, the only time people lose on social media is when you do one of two things, number one is that you portray a particular life, which people can see through from a mind-blowing distance away. Like there’s nothing about us that’s not a lie anymore. So do not lie. And number two, when you try to go for volume versus depth, and at the end of the day, you can tell me all day that like, Oh, I want 3 million followers. I’m like, cool. I’ll give you 300 customers. Or you could have 300 followers and have 300 customers. And one of them is [54:48 inaudible] and the other one’s all about ego. And so like having an accurate measuring stick for why you’re doing it and what you’re doing, and all of us are on this point. Like Mike, you’re turning into a lighthouse as I call it. You’re like, I want to share this. You’ve learned lots of lessons in this career of yours and what you’re doing. And so you’re like, you know what? I don’t have to do anything. I’m just going to document it. I’m going to tell stories. I’m going to put out into the world. And it’s like a magnet, the people that are ready for it find it, they come in and they go deep. The ones that aren’t remember it as a touch point. And it takes on average 26 to 120 touchpoints to get a customer to make a commitment. And then they might move on. But then they might see what a show or a keynote and like, Oh my God, that’s Mike. I remember, back to the podcast like, Oh, I heard this one again. And then they bumped into an event like, Hey Mike, I’m ready for that call. It’s creating authentic relationships because it’s eliminating the pressure of like getting on a call like you have to close right now. I have to transact right now. No, it’s allowing people in that natural human process what I teach and call the conscious and subconscious customer journey to get enrolled in what it is that we’re offering to get enrolled in our service. And it was like, well, why would you want that? I’m like, cause when you transact, you get a customer for a day. When you enroll, you get a customer for life. And so it’s social media has been a gift to the world of sales and selling and relationships because what we have the capacity to do now is, we don’t have to have people come meet us on our time. Like you have to come close on this call or this is the only time I’m available. It’s a very asynchronous relationship where they can collect the touch points. They can take themselves on a journey. And when they are ready, the door is wide open for them to come in.

Mike Ayala: I love that. And, just the authenticity part of it, you just keep coming back to it. And Kara, my wife and I were talking about this the other day, you were talking about not being able to lie and being exposed and the authenticity and Kara and I were talking the other day. I know some people right now that have a ton of followers on Instagram and their whole business model is based around their followers. And they’re really scared to say anything authentic because they don’t

know what people’s going to think about it or what people are going to do or say. And I love what, just coming just back to who you truly are. I mean, I don’t have a ton of followers on Instagram or any of that. And Kara and I’ve been talking about this. Like I just want to be authentic because honestly, I don’t want to find myself in a position anyway, where I have a hundred thousand followers and I can’t say anything because I’m scared of what they’re going to think, say or do, because I haven’t been authentic, or I’ve been lying about who I am. I don’t want people in my life. I don’t want people following me that don’t want to hear what I have to say. If you don’t like it, then move on. I’m not looking for anything from you. I just want to have a mutually beneficial relationship.

George Bryan: And you know what, it’s one of the things I love about digital marketing, kind of creates a container of integrity. And if you don’t play in it, you lose hard and you lose harder than you ever were to lost, going to a board meeting or giving a keynote and fluffing numbers. Like it kind of forces integrity. And I love that part about it. And you’re so true. Like I think the thing is, is that digital marketing has kind of gotten a bad rap in my opinion. And it’s evolved over the years. Like I would say I’m an early adopter, but I’m not. I have friends that have been in it since 99, like I jumped in 2009, 2010. And I was like, Oh man, like they got a decade on me. I didn’t even know websites existed back then. Like I was still playing snake on my Nokia. And I had a pager from smart beep $1.99/month. Remember those days. But what happened was is that digital marketing kind of created itself, It came out. And there was resistance to it. There was also a whole lot of support for it. And in the early [58:19 inaudible] of it, I’d say up until about four or five years ago, it was just all about like the people follow you, get enrolled in your stuff. Everything was timeline-based. Like it was in order. It wasn’t algorithmic. And then the amount of attention shifted so heavily that everybody wanted to grasp on to what they were, Oh, I had these many followers or whatever. And it was actually the removal of access to people that created this false belief in my opinion. Like we thought we owned those 28,000 likes. We thought we owned those 1.2 million people. We never owned them. We built our house inside of somebody else’s house. And then we got upset about it. But what continued to carry on was these vanity metrics. And what I love is if you’ve gotten into digital marketing in the last three years, you’ve been gifted because you never came under the paradigm that you were entitled or owned anything or some vanity number, you’re left with being yourself. And so there’s like this dual paradigm that happens where people come in, they’re like, Oh, I want the old ways, remember Facebook. I’m like, shut up. Like just stop. You can stare at your flat tire as much as you want and you’re still not going to inflate it again. Just take that off and change it. And like, let’s go. And so, yeah, you just want to make sure that like, whatever you do,

whatever you choose like that it’s an extension of you. Like, it’s you, it’s not like this life that I’m portraying. Like you can choose what parts you share, but what people want is people want relationships like marketing. The definition of marketing in my opinion is a two and I will change this in a dictionary one day is a two-way value based long-term relationship. That’s it. And long-term meaning that they might only transact with you once. But the effects of that relationship have a positive impact forever. Like it improved upon the silence and that’s it. And so whatever you’re sharing to the world, if it fits into your bucket, like this is who I am, this is what I wanted to share. I own it. I’m congruent. It’s there. You can’t lose that game. And the right people are going to vibrate with it and attract with it because at the end of the day, people do not buy the best product or the best service they buy the best relationship. And for all you guys that telling me that you can create these authentic relationships by like, spamming their email or dropping these direct mails and are cold calling them 64 times and nobody picks up the phone anymore. You need to take the feedback that they don’t want to be on the phone. They just want you to send them a message and send them a video and let them take that journey on their own. And patients is the best gift that you can have. Game over.

Mike Ayala: Amazing. Well, if you have enjoyed this, he’s mentioned this already, but George, you’ve got a podcast.

George Bryan: I do, I do have a podcast and it’s called mind of George. It’s all at

Mike Ayala: Yeah. So if you’ve enjoyed this, I mean, go track down George Brian, he’s amazing. Ton of value. Always. What else do we need to talk about?

George Bryan: I think, so first this was a gift. So everybody just wonders, like I have a mission to help a million entrepreneurs in the next five years and I’m getting close, I’m making a dent, but one of the things that I believe to be true in my soul is that no business should ever win until the customer wins first. And so Mike will tell you I can’t lie at all. And that means by omission. So if you ask me a question, even if somebody paid me for the answer, I’m giving it to you anyways. And that’s basically my podcast. So luckily my clients don’t listen to them and they’re okay with it, cause I tell them. But like, when we think about this, I think the biggest thing that would I ever want anybody to remember is that nothing transformational can come from a transaction, nothing. And it doesn’t matter where you are, what platform you’re on, what mediums you’re using, in person, not in person, digital, not in digital. Our job is to help people move forward closer to their goals with our

product, with our service, with our offerings. And that should never be predicated on a credit card. And so if I had to give anything away, if you want the secret to building a million, 10 million, 100 or a billion-dollar business, and I’ve done all of them, it always has to be predicated on adding value on the front-end agnostic of a credit card. And in today’s day and age, the attention is on digital. It’s a gift for us to be able to reach out and touch people, to find out what they’re struggling with. And quite frankly, it’s probably the biggest USP that exists in the world because most people still think that they can build businesses and have an impact by keeping the quote unquote secrets or somebody’s results in the backend of a credit card. Like, Hey, I’m going to give you my three secrets to lose 15 pounds after you give me $27. Oh wait, I know I probably [1:02:40 inaudible] three secrets, but I’m only going to give you one and a half, but if you give me another $97, I’ll give you the other one and a half. Like it’ll never work that way. And the way that I see it, Mike, I hate to fail. Like my story is, I’m not good enough, people leave me. So I try to stack the deck in my favor. So when you play business this way, when you market this way, it’s a guaranteed win-win game. Because at the end of the day, the worst thing that happens is you changed somebody’s life and you didn’t get their credit card. So instead you capitalize on the 86% of word of mouth

marketing. What’s going to happen once they go tell all their friends.

Mike Ayala: So good. Well do not miss obviously. Brother, I just appreciate your time, your energy and just the immense value that you bring always.

George Bryan: Brother, you’re a gift. I can’t wait to have you on the show. Cause have to come listen to that one too. And I’m sure we’re going to get into it. I’m excited. Thanks for having me and sorry Mike, but just for everybody listening, I have to say this every time, you made it through my voice for close to an hour and it’s a gift and it’s a gift that I can never give back to you. So thank you for sharing this time with me. And I genuinely appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. So thank you.

Mike Ayala: Awesome. Love you, man.

George Bryan: Love you brother. Thank you.

Mike Ayala: Yep, dude. Where’d you come from?


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Episode 44