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Rock Thomas | Say Yes – Figure It Out Later

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Hosted by
Mike Ayala

Raised on a farm, motivational speaker, entrepreneur and best selling author Rock Thomas knows the difference between working hard and working smart. Today, he opens up about how he’s balanced the two while writing his own success story.

Listen in to learn how he’s created a 35-stream income vehicle and what lessons he’s picked up along the way. He shares how he’s created products and programs like M1 to guide others to become whole life millionaires and tap into the strength of identity. Hear why saying yes and figuring it out later, has been key to some of his most major wins in business and in life.

“Pain breeds passion, it brings purpose until vision takes over.”-Rock Thomas

“Once we find our tribe and belong, we’re going to do everything to stay up with that tribe. If that tribe agrees that growth is part of its culture, then you’re going to grow and push yourself beyond what you did before, because you want to remain part of that community. And the accountability happens organically.” -Rock Thomas

“The burning desire to achieve anything is the basis and foundation for all people that want to create epic results.” -Rock Thomas


  • [00:00] Episode overview
  • [01:42] Intro
  • [02:18] Meet Rock Thomas
  • [02:51] Who has had the greatest impact on his life?
  • [04:00] What has had the greatest impact on his success?
  • [06:04] Rock’s greatest setback and what he learned from it
  • [06:53] The piece of advice he finds himself sharing the most
  • [08:02] How he got to where he is today
  • [10:09] Developing 35-streams of income
  • [12:03] Preparing for changes to come post COVID-19 pandemic
  • [13:53] Gobundance and creating M1
  • [17:23] What goes into creating a whole life millionaire?
  • [19:28] Fostering organic accountability
  • [21:25] What freedom means to Rock Thomas
  • [23:11] Which area of freedom does he protect the most?
  • [24:41] Using leverage to gain more freedom
  • [25:52] Connections and leveraging relationships
  • [27:56] The hardest thing he’s had to give up doing
  • [29:34] 3 things people should be doing during quarantine
  • [36:02] Final words and outro
  • [06:03] Summary and outro



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Mike Ayala 00:00

Today I have the privilege of bringing Rock Thomas to the Investing for Freedom podcast. I’m not going to say a whole lot in this intro because well Rock is Rock and you guys are just gonna love him, this man brings so much energy and just drive and passion to everything that he does. I’ve never seen him at an event or at a meeting or even just a dinner party at his house where he isn’t just serving and really just elevating the entire energy in the entire room. It’s, it’s awesome to watch. Rock has impacted over 100 million lives. He’s the host of the top rated, I Am Movement podcast. He’s a best selling author. He’s a motivational speaker, and also rock he runs a organization called M1, which I’ve had the privilege of being on the board of advisors and we’ll get into more about what that is, but you might want to look into M1 if you’re looking for a place of community growth, a place for accountability, and just a tribe that’s gonna challenge you to move higher in your life.

Mike Ayala 00:51

Some of the things we get into today rock talks about say yes and figure it out later, which is a pretty awesome concept. This was pretty mind blowing. I’ve thought a lot about this since the episode recorded. Stimulus, pause response. So a lot of times we’re stimulated by outside forces. And what we tend to do is to just respond instead of pausing and really thinking through that. So he kind of peels back the hood on that if you will, and just kind of digs into that it’s pretty insightful. A big thing and rocks just amazing at building community but he gets into community and how community actually breeds accountability. Like you don’t need to really say hey, we’re going to hold you accountable to this because once you’re in a community as long as you belong there and you really believe in the mission, it actually forces accountability higher it causes you to want to not not be the weak link ultimately is what he was really talking about and just such an amazing concept. So, without further ado, let’s get into the podcast with the one and only Rock Thomas.

Intro 01:42

Are you looking for freedom? Freedom from the daily grind and hustle? Or just finding a way to live the life you always wanted? Then join us on the investing for freedom podcast, our host, Mike Ayala will help you discover new ways to find freedom with tips, insights and interviews. You’ll learn the exact systems he’s used to travel the world and live his best life. True success and happiness are all about freedom. And here’s your roadmap on how to find freedom on your own terms. Welcome to the investing for freedom podcast. Here’s your host, Mike Ayala.

Mike Ayala 02:18

Hey everybody, so I’ve got a good friend and mentor of mine Rock Thomas on the show today. So happy to have you. Thanks for carving out the time, Rock.

Rock Thomas 02:25

Hey, you know what, buddy just hanging out with you and chit chatting. I always learned something and it’s happy to be able to contribute to this amazing podcast. Yeah.

Mike Ayala 02:33

Yeah, I’m really excited. Um, you know, I woke up one day a while back and I realized the conversations that I get to have with with people like you and that’s what really kind of drove me to really start this. It’s like if I if I could just share the wisdom that you have with with the people that are out there in the world. It’s it makes me excited, so appreciate you being on. Yeah, man.

Mike Ayala 02:51

So here’s four questions that we start out with every guest so who’s had the greatest impact on your life Rock?

Rock Thomas 02:56

Beyond a shadow of a doubt, my father. But uh the second person to that is Tony Robbins. I’ve been a disciple, a follower, a student of him for 20 years now. 74 events consumed pretty much all of his product and and it really came down to energy for me. Why I chose him is, I thought somebody with his vast amount of energy. I want to model some of that then he’s very strategic and very smart. But he’s been he’s been I mean, there’s a lot of them, but he’s a big one.

Mike Ayala 03:25

Yeah, that’s awesome. And you actually serve quite a bit with Tony Robbins, right?

Rock Thomas 03:28

Yeah, I went after I did the first event. I really loved his content. I did 19 events in 19 months, immersion all in and it shifted so many things in my life. I was you know, I was doing drugs and behaving badly prior to his first event. I was able to quit cold turkey just by listening actually, to one of his audio programs, I didn’t even meet him and change my habits and become much healthier. Become a better version of myself through a lot of the tools. So yeah, it’s it’s been an ongoing relationship.

Mike Ayala 04:00

That’s awesome. If you could narrow it down to one thing that had the greatest impact on your success, what do you think it would be?

Rock Thomas 04:05

Say yes and figure it out later.

Mike Ayala 04:07


Rock Thomas 04:07

So many people hesitate and give in to doubt and they’re like, Yeah, but I don’t know how to open that business. I don’t know how to pick oranges off the tree. I don’t know how to ride a boat. Whatever it is, I’m about to cut the grass. I you know, and and my girlfriend laughs at me because she doesn’t know the part of me that is a craftsman like I can build a house from the footings all the way up to the top every part of it. I’ve done it several times on my farm because I got to the point Mike where I don’t even want to hang a picture. But since we’ve been on this Coronavirus, you know lockdown, we’ve had the carburetor break, we’ve had different things go off. I’ve been painting fences, hanging this fixing that. And she’s looking at me going, I had no idea you could do that. I’m like I can do everything baby. I just choose to do some of the things that pay me better. So now what was your question now? I forget.

Mike Ayala 05:00

Oh yeah, if you narrow down to one thing on success you said, say yes and figure it out later

Rock Thomas 05:05

Right? Right, so I just most of the things that advanced me is you know, I was I was taking flying lessons in my pilot asked me, do you want to become a part owner in a plane you can save the fuel costs and the rental costs and I’m like, Yeah, he goes, all right, you’re gonna need $10,000 to buy 10% of this plane and I’m like, okay, and he goes when will you have it? And I go soon. I ended up going tobacco picking in southern Ontario for six weeks and made a ton of money in six weeks. I just said yes. In fact, I got on that bus to go down there with no job just wandered around the terminal and found a farmer who needed somebody got in the back of his truck and then got a job my whole life has been, say yes to things that I didn’t know it was gonna happen. In other words, I can handle a decent amount of uncertainty and allow myself to get excited versus discouraged or disappointed. So yeah,

Mike Ayala 05:54

That’s awesome

Rock Thomas 05:55

Long answer.

Mike Ayala 05:56

Did you actually end up getting your pilot’s license?

Rock Thomas 05:58

I did. I have 125 hours on a tail dragger, yeah, I’m a pilot, buddy.

Mike Ayala 06:02

Nice. I am too. I don’t know if we’ve ever talked about it.

Rock Thomas 06:04

I know we haven’t talked about that. I’ve watched you take your lessons and stuff and this never came up in convo.

Mike Ayala 06:09

Cool. What was your greatest setback in what you learn from it?

Rock Thomas 06:12

There’s, there’s a there’s a lot of them. But I think my greatest setback is when my father got cancer and I took time off. I was working in the airlines. He was in Australia and I flew out there several times. And I took time off to take care of him. The goal was to get him to appreciate me and tell me he was proud of me that didn’t work out so well. But what I learned from it is that when you don’t have passive income vehicles, so you have a job and you have a lifestyle that requires money going out every month, when you take time off, to take care of somebody or to do things that really matter to you, you erode your capital and you’re forced back to work. So my biggest lesson was from there was to go out and create passive income vehicles. I have 35 now.

Mike Ayala 06:53

Nice. Good for you. We’ll get more into that later. That’s pretty, pretty cool. What is the piece of advice you find yourself sharing the most?

Rock Thomas 06:59

Stimulus, pause, respond. Life keeps on happening to most people, it’s really happening for us. People don’t pause usually and they respond, somebody cuts them off and they respond with anger because they have that pent up or an employee quits. And they get frustrated because they focus on having to rehire somebody in a time wasted and all that. I remind people as much as possible that you have an opportunity to choose how you’re going to respond. And with the highest emotional IQ, the wisest people respond after some thought, not some emotional knee jerk reaction, and you have time to respond. And if you’ve ever been around the presence of some guru wise person, they may take a long… you ask them a simple question, like what’s your favorite food? And they’ll go, and you’re like, What are you thinking about? And they really give It thought, versus you know, some reaction from from what’s popular what they think that people should hear. So I find that’s the biggest thing nothing has meaning but the meaning you give it your response is a meaning that you give it and that’s the track that I teach a lot.

Mike Ayala 08:02

Stimulus, pause, response. I love it. appreciate you sharing that. So let’s get into Rock. Tell us your background. Where’d you come from? Where are you at today? Um, your story is so inspiring and uplifting. So…

Rock Thomas 08:13

Yeah, so grew up on a farm in Canada parents got, well actually my parents were Suburbans. My parents got divorced at five. I lived with my mom for three years couldn’t she couldn’t handle me I was a troublemaker. I moved out to the farm with my dad where he’d be married. So I was now the youngest of seven. I pretty much battled from the age eight and a half to 17 to find my place amongst, you know, a farm of 22 horses, kids coming up from the city to ride horses, six brothers and sisters and going back and forth. So it was a very challenging time with a lot of adversity, which taught me a little bit.

Rock Thomas 08:49

The other thing that I think is that there’s always a way when you’re committed and creative and you learn that on a farm, the pipes freeze and you carry water, you know, down the mountain, and you can’t get into the barn door because it’s frozen, there was a flood because you know, blocked at the bottom, you get a pickaxe and you chip away for an hour and you get in.

Rock Thomas 09:06

So, my life has been one of overcoming adversity, which made me a good entrepreneur. But I’d say some of the big breakthroughs when I realized that the labels I’d been given as a as a child, you’re dumb, you’re ugly, you’re stupid, you’re skinny, you’ll never amount to much. I carried those around with me like they were part of my identity most of my life until a new programmer arrived in my life and said, you know, we can make some new suggestions on the current programming, you’re running and upgrade your software. And then you can make different decisions and behave different. And I went from working hard as a laborer to working smart and as a salesperson, I went from working in my businesses to working on my business and then I start to access leverage and education and network etc. I was able to go on and sell a billion dollars worth of real estate real estate business and sell it for 4 million and then the left the lesson started again put out a million dollars in the stock market lost it all. So the lessons just become different over time. But I would say adversity you know, overcoming adversity was a big theme of myself growing up.

Mike Ayala 10:08

Overcoming adversity. I love it.

Mike Ayala 10:09

So you mentioned that you had you have 35 streams right now, is that what you called? It streams?

Rock Thomas 10:14

Mm hmm. Yes.

Mike Ayala 10:15

Talk to us a little bit about that.

Rock Thomas 10:16

Well, after going through that incident with my father, I started to think what are ways that I can have money coming in when I’m not working, when I’m working, things I can do that will pay me for a one time effort. So I became very interested in things like Believe it or not multilevel marketing, direct sales where I could start to leverage things. I built out a real estate business and then I started to add team members to replace me, I really just was very, it was pretty simple. It wasn’t the fastest way but it was like I would master something and then I would have somebody shadow me and then I would have them do it. Whatever it was, there was no cutting the grass in my yard or whether it was showing buyers properties in real estate. I kept on working myself out of a job until I had owned a real estate company and I had my own real estate business within that I had a flipping component of it somebody that had headed that division, we had a student housing division. Now we’re working on storage units.

Rock Thomas 11:11

So I would often find a good operator Mike, and then I would just help them build out that particular business. And I would take a piece of the action for helping mentor and guide them. And today, you know, I also have investments in the stock market and I promote a lot of other people’s businesses too. Like, I have no problem promoting somebody like a buddy of mine, Mike Showgrin. He’s really good at teaching people how to invest in Airbnb and build a business there. So I will interview him on my platform and I will get paid an affiliate fee for for his product that people choose to buy. And that’s how the world works today. So if you’re good at you feel passionate about other people’s products, there’s no reason why you can’t be compensated for steering people that way. So it’s a it’s a lot of different little streams, including audio programs and coaching online and books and working for Tony Robbins. Some of them are horizontal or and some of them are vertical.

Mike Ayala 12:03

You know, it’s interesting. So we’re sitting at April 3 right now and we’re dealing with the Coronavirus, and in 2020. We’re all locked down and everybody’s got a bunch of time on their hands. There’s a lot of opportunity in times like this. And that’s why I love talking to guys like you because people can really like stop and reinvent themselves right now. They wanted to what do you think about that?

Rock Thomas 12:23

Yeah, I agree with you. I think this is a time it’s the winter right now. No winter, sometimes you have to stay in your house and you have to think about what’s the next crop you’re going to plant it’s now a time to plant seeds, you can sharpen your tools, you can go into the shed and organize things and clean out the stuff that that you need to make space for when you harvest in the coming months. So that’s what I’m all about is I’m going through my you know, to-do list of important but not urgent things that I’m moving into the into the urgent box. And I’m preparing so that when things go back to normal, they’ll never be the same but I’m in a position of offense. Not in a position of preparing to get ready. So I’m going to be coming out ready to meet clients ready to do face to face. Locked and loaded with no chores around the house that I have to do taxes pre done documentation, paperwork, all that stuff I’m getting out of the way and I’m educating myself on how to live in a brave new world that’s going to be even more online, even though I’ve got years of experience gonna brush up my skills around YouTube, record a bunch of stuff in my studio. So to me, not a lot has changed Mike, I’m just preparing for a brave new world that I think is never going to be the same.

Mike Ayala 13:34

You know, I’m so thankful to have you in my life at this point in time because it’s chaos. And you know, we’ll get into this a little bit more but like with m one and and the community that you’ve built, just Rise With Rock and the events that you do, it’s your your energy has been a strength for a lot of people. So I appreciate you during this time.

Mike Ayala 13:53

I want to digress for a minute, I definitely want to make sure that we come back and talk some specifics on what you’re doing during this time. Let’s dig into M1 a little bit. So let me back up before we get there. So, we met through Gobundance. Let’s talk a little bit about Gobundance and how that led to M1 and what you’re currently working on with M1.

Rock Thomas 14:09

So I’m a big believer that your net worth is dependent on your network. And I was in an event about eight years ago listening to a guy named David Osborne speak about success and in the real estate field, and as I have the habit to do, and I see somebody who’s moving and who’s powerful and who’s insightful, I will go up, introduce myself and try to find a way to enter their world. And so I invited myself basically to his world and we ended up golfing together and hitting it off and he invited me to a mastermind session that was happening about six months later. And the interesting thing is, you know, he said to me, do you want to come hang out with about 15 of us in about five months in March in Colorado at my house and we’re gonna mastermind hang out ski we got a chef and this and that and first thing I said was yes, say yes, figured out later. Yeah. And he goes, you didn’t even asked me how much it’s gonna cost.

Rock Thomas 14:58

I go, David, you just told me hang out with 15 high minded entrepreneurs, multimillionaires in a house in colorado and ski have fun and have high minded conversations. Why… I don’t care what it costs. And he goes, I knew is the right person. And that’s what happens with successful people is they don’t focus on cost, they focus on opportunity. And so I met there, we hit it off, I noticed that there was some things they’ve been doing it for a while, I noticed some things from my experience with Tony Robbins and with working with DR Becker that if we made this systematic and gave it a bit of structure, we could really provide massive value for each other. So we all kind of, in the traditional mastermind setting, sat down and thought, Okay, what would be good things to do and came up with meditation and yoga because we’re hard charging is more important to dial us back then the dial us up. We always wanted a component of exercise. We wanted to have high minded conversations. So we came up with 104 questions that we would carry with us and we could ask when we’re hiking up a mountain or in a bus, so the conversation wouldn’t, you know, think down to sports and politics.

Rock Thomas 16:01

Anyway, long story short, we went through this and we just started invite friends of friends. And within a few years, we were at over 100 members. And we started to have some people knock at the door that weren’t time free, like we were. And I had a soft spot for people that are hungry and want to be coached. So I raised my hand and said, I think we could create a division where we really give people a curriculum of getting to the place where they they need to understand some of the fundamentals that we already got. So if go abundance was kind of the University of entrepreneurship, then M1 became the high school where there still was some structure that needed to be, you know, downloaded to them, and then the university students could come and visit the high school and they could share their wisdom like you do for us. And people are like, Oh my god, okay, he’s further down the road. Like I said, people you don’t need tiger woods to teach you how to golf. When you’re just starting. You need your local pro who will charge you 50 bucks an hour because Tiger Woods will charge you 500,000 bucks an hour. He’ll show you how to grip the club, but you’re not at the level where you need the distinctions or nuances yet of Tiger Woods.

Rock Thomas 17:02

So what we do is we get people we meet them where they’re at, they work with a coach that can get them further down the road and then they they graduate up to the next coach and the next mentor that’s a little more sophisticated or is going to be able to take them further down the road. We’ve created 55 whole life millionaires. We have a lot of fun doing it. We have a community that thrives on supporting each other in the process.

Mike Ayala 17:23

Um dig in on the whole life millionaire a little bit because this is really powerful.

Rock Thomas 17:27

So pain breeds passion, it brings purpose until vision takes over. And I grew up with a father that taught me to work hard. I was very good at working hard. I did long hours, but in the process, my relationship started to suffer. I just wasn’t around and I also neglected my health. I thought I was pretty good because I wasn’t really bad. But you can compare yourself to really bad anytime to make yourself feel better. But just because I wasn’t eating McDonald’s three times a week, I thought I was doing pretty good, but I wasn’t really doing that great. So I realized that there’s a lot of people that give up their health to gain their wealth and then they have to later spend their wealth to get their health back. And often their relationships suffers.

Rock Thomas 18:06

So I said it let’s create an environment where we get it all. And that means that if you put a bit of attention an hour or so a day to your health and well being that’s doable, and you’re intentional around your relationships in your conversation, being a better communicator, and we focus on creating passive income vehicles, we do all that and you become a millionaire, then you become a whole life millionaire. What’s remarkable is we’ve had people that 65 years old, overweight dieting their entire life, within nine months, lost 65 pounds and now has a label of I am an athlete completely transformed his life and go skating for an hour and a half with his grandson when he could originally only do two laps in the rink. We’ve had people that are running Ironman marathons that didn’t consider themselves an exercise type person. And we’ve had people that from childhood trauma might have hung on to weight to protect themselves so that they didn’t To deal with maybe being raped or getting advances or they didn’t feel pretty or what have you to deal with that and then now be in a place where they’ve shed the 70 pounds. And they’ve opened up six Airbnbs. And um so there’s a lot of sense of fulfillment and helping people navigate through these things. But it’s really about looking at the different areas of people’s lives using the toolbox. We have the network of people like yourself and others, and saying, How can we all dig in and contribute to your you’re living your best life?

Mike Ayala 19:28

That’s awesome. Yeah, it’s good stuff. So you had made a comment to me the other day when we were talking about community and accountability. Is this something new that you’re kind of talking through? Let’s dig into that a little bit.

Rock Thomas 19:38

Yeah, I love it is kind of something new. I’m talking through because I think masterminds has become a buzzword in the last few years. We’ve been doing it for eight years. So I think we have a little bit more just you know, road underneath us as far as having done it. So you start to if you pay really attention, you start to see nuances and distinctions and being around Tony Robbins for so long. I will see him teach the same event but with a new distinction or a new nuance that helps people digest it and understand it better. No complex is the enemy of done and simplicity is is really when you understand simplicity that is, makes a great teacher. So for me what I started to realize that the accountability is… why does accountability work? And why when we’re not held accountable to our standards drop? And my particular answer on that is that and this virus is so really a good references. So many people are jonesing at home and they’re they’re locked up and they’re forced to do different things which a lot of people like yourself being creative playing games and hanging out and walking and stuff, which is awesome. But there’s also a certain number of people that are are not being able to connect, when you connect, it’s a human need. We’re a social being. When you connect, you feel like you belong matter, and that you have meaning to your life. The kid who goes into a school and shoots everybody did not have any of that. So what’s the opposite of success and belonging? in isolation. So isolation is something that we deeply don’t want. Once we find our tribe and belong, we’re going to do everything to stay up with that tribe. If that tribe agrees that growth is part of its culture, then you’re going to grow and push yourself beyond what you did before, because you want to remain part of that community. And the accountability happens organically. And that’s what I love about environments like this.

Mike Ayala 21:25

That is so awesome. The accountability happens organic, so good. What does freedom mean to you Rock?

Rock Thomas 21:30

thick, it’s very similar to you. I built a lot of my businesses and worked really, really hard so I could have the freedom to do what I want when I want with whom I want. And I remember many times sitting in my office working in the summer looking out at a sunny day going, I would really like to go golfing today, but I can’t. So then in the winter months, I would work double shifts because there was not an outside person so much in the winters. And then when it came to the summer, I remember one year I had a goal in 1996 to sell 100 homes a real estate and play 100 games, a golf When I got to mid October, it’s hard to snowing Canada and I’d played 85 games. I’m walking down the corridor at the office and I hear somebody in the office go, Hey, John can’t make it down to Florida to go golfing for seven days. We need an eighth guy because we’re going to play two games a golf every day. And it’s not going to work for the betting and everything. Who could we get? And what did I do? I walked in and I said yes to that. And I got signed up. I went down for one week played 14 games came back. So I had now 99 games to the year I am okay being 1% off my goal. I met I got into a good relationship with the owner of my company at that event. And two months later, he walked into my office and offered to sell me his company. So something great came out of that. And on December 31, I had 96 transactions, and somehow I got five transactions on December 31st, which never happens. I sold 101 properties. I had 99 games a golf. So if you put the two together, that’s 200 transactions or games of golf exactly what I had written at the beginning of the year. So there is huge power in writing goals be intentional and going for what you want, man.

Mike Ayala 23:11

That’s awesome. So you might have already answered this but I think there’s different areas of freedom and priority. So which one do you protect the most? Is it time? Is it money? Is it relationships? What the…

Rock Thomas 23:21

You know, that’s a really good question. And I had somebody test me and I failed actually, they said, What do you value more time or money and I said time and they go Then why are you whatever it was washing your own car cutting your lawn or, or some $20 an hour job, and I go, Well, you know, it’s just easier, it’s faster or whatever he goes, Well, let me challenge you in that you should have a do not do list. And that do not do lists should include everything that doesn’t light you up. That doesn’t make you feel fully alive that can be done by somebody at less than than what your hourly wages. So he encouraged me to come up with an hourly value. So I took my total revenue for the year and divided it by the number of hours, etc. And I’m like, Okay, if I’m worth $700 an hour, why am I washing my car? And then that asking question of, well, you know what, it’s a brand new Tesla, and I love it. And I love touching it and babying it. So there’s actually another reason why I’m doing it. But there are some other activities that could jump on to that do not do list. And it really was a great way for me to go. There’s an old part of me that still runs a scarcity program that needs a little bit of upgrading, so that I do totally value time. I’m very conscious now about doing things that I really, really love. And that comes to one of your favorite questions is What do I want? What do I really want? And I think it’s an ongoing question, because we’re changing all the time and reinventing ourselves all the time.

Mike Ayala 24:41

So this next question, and again, I think this is kind of all tying together, you might have already answered it, but what’s one way you use leverage to gain more freedom? Is it through hiring somebody to wash your car? is there other areas you could,

Rock Thomas 24:52

you know, leverage is is like the eighth wonder of the world. And so the more that you can access leverage in all ways. I think I’m always trying to think of leverage, even if I’m, you know, carrying something from one side of the yard to the other. I’m like, do I have a wheelbarrow? You know, can I roll it on something? So I’m always thinking leverage.

Rock Thomas 25:11

But most of the leverage that I use is the leverage of money and people. So how do I put my money to work so that it comes home with more friends? And how do I put the people in my organization to work so that they’re very productive. So watching a video by Darren Hardy, and he says that the average person in an organization brings in about $400,000 worth of value to to its enterprise. And he goes, our team, we bring in $2 million per person he goes, were highly productive, efficient and effective. And here are systems. So I think it’s really about being conscious about giving the people on your team, the tools and strategies and things they need, so they can do the stuff that you don’t want to do while you’re doing the stuff you want to do. That’s awesome.

Mike Ayala 25:52

You know, one thing that I’ve been thinking about a lot and I’ve watched you, you’re a master at this, so obviously leveraging money, but then time so I Thought about leveraging you know, people’s talents and abilities and that kind of stuff for a lot of years. But leveraging relationship. Let’s talk about that a little bit. You’re kind of a master at that like connecting and relationships.

Rock Thomas 26:11

Yeah, well, I mean, your net worth is directly correlated to your net network, networth network. And some people are better at it than others. I don’t think I’m particularly good at it. I’ve always kind of grew up felt like a loner. So not the type of person that naturally goes to events and then meets all these people and then follows up etc. But when I find people that I resonate with and I feel like we have something in common, like say yourself, then I nurture the relationship and I work on it, but I think absolutely, I ended up on Celebrity Apprentice because of relationship. I never thought that would have happened. I was pretty cool.

Mike Ayala 26:46

I didn’t know that.

Rock Thomas 26:47

You didn’t know that? It was another say yes. and figure it out. Later. I was coming back from an event in New Orleans and David said, Hey, you want to jump on my plane and go golfing in Austin for a couple of days and I looked at my agenda. I had nothing that couldn’t be shifted. So Sure, yes, we’re on the plane. He gets a text from Ricky Williams who was on Celebrity Apprentice. He goes, dude, I gotta raise like $50,000 by tomorrow for our contest. Could you help me out? So we both got on the phone and started calling a bunch of Gobundance guys, and we came up with $41,000 in about an hour and a half. And then he goes, do you want to hand deliver it Rock? Or do you want to just you know, we’ll mail it in and I go, let’s go ahead and deliver it. Yeah, we jumped on the plane the next day, flew to LA. Got on the set, got my 30 seconds of fame with Boy George and with with Muhammad Ali’s daughter and met some cool people and then went back to the buddy’s house, and we played ping pong. And then we flew down to Mexico and went golfing at a billionaire’s Golf Resort that I was friends with. So bottom line is Yeah, leveraging relationships is amazing. And it’s something I still continue to work on. But it’s had a huge impact in the last few years on on the opportunities for me.

Mike Ayala 27:56

I’m going to shift this question a little bit because you’ve already answered it. So I’m going to challenge you a little bit. The normal question is, what’s one thing you used to do yourself, but now you hire it out. But I’m What’s the hardest thing that you had to give up that you’ve used to do that you no longer do?

Rock Thomas 28:10

You know, the experience I’ve had Mike with this is that I, it’s a bit of back and forth. So I give stuff up. And then I realized that I wasn’t clear enough in my communication, and then I have to buy the job back. And that’s on me. So sometimes I assume that people see it the same way I do. And then they, they don’t carry it out the way I want, and I get frustrated and disappointed and then I fire them or give it I take it back or what have you. I’d say that I don’t know if I’m answering your question, but that’s the area I’ve improved the most in is I slow down and I communicate better. I get really clear we have turned like over communicate. Make sure people can repeat back so this is what you want. And this is how you want Yes. A little bit like a pilot and a co pilot. Yeah, really double check the list where before used to be I just like as a true visionary. So I’ll be like, okay, they know what my brain is thinking. Boom, this and there. I have one version of my mind. And they have a completely different version, but we never talked about it, right? And when they execute their version, I’m like, What the heck? And they’re like, well, you never told me that. I’m like, Yes, I did. And they go, No, you did not go. I’m pretty sure I did. And I’ve through repeated feedback like that. I’m like, Okay, I’m communicating poorly, how to delegate this task. So I think that’s been the biggest growth for me. And I probably didn’t answer your question. No,

Mike Ayala 29:26

I was great. That was amazing. I find myself. I’m in the same. What do you mean, you didn’t know what I wanted? Like?

Rock Thomas 29:32

Yeah, exactly.

Mike Ayala 29:34

Yeah, no, that was awesome. So let’s shift gears a little bit. Again, we’re April 3 2020. We’re quarantined. We’re locked down. I mean, this is just crazy. Like I would have never I think this is teaching us resilience and flexibility, if nothing else. So what are some of the things that you’re doing right now Rock? I mean, you’ve you talked about your 35 streams, you run teams, you’ve I’ve seen you flourish during this time, and you’re really showing up as a leader, but what are what are some of the what some of the advice you’d give to the listeners and what can they what can they do? Right now what should they be doing?

Rock Thomas 30:01

Yeah, I got a couple of things is, first of all, I would set a new spring cleaning goal list to do a bunch of stuff around wherever you’re quarantined. Your house, you’re cleaning out your closets, give stuff away, just that all that kind of basic stuff. It’s very, it’s very tactile, but it’s very doable, and it keeps you moving and keeps you keeps you fluid. So that’s certainly what I’m doing. And it really feels good to get some of those things that I would have never gotten to. They just weren’t important, you know, like cleaning behind the back part of my house that never gets done. Now, who cares, but it feels good to do it. So that’s number one.

Rock Thomas 30:34

Number two is I would say choose some skill that you want to get better at. So I’m back to playing the piano, you could choose how to speed type speed read, take an online course for a million different things. I would say improve a skill that you will move the dial forward for you. For instance, I’m getting better at technology. I downloaded an app that allows me to text people in groups takes a little while to format normally have my assistant do it, she’s not here, I’m going to do it. Because I want to get better at a skill that’s going to serve me during these times I want to come out of this, this online kind of forced behavior with some new skills that will allow me not be to be behind but be ahead of the curve. So intentionally develop a skill.

Rock Thomas 31:18

The third thing is for me is to be incredibly grateful that I am healthy, my family around me is healthy. And I’ve been taking a little bit more time to text to FaceTime to reach out to the people that I really love, and to be with the people that I love in my house here and to raise that the presence of being there. And then the last thing I’d say is that for my businesses and for the people that are my clients, etc, we are doing everything we can just add value, just to continually add value, find ways to do lives and webinars and bring in speakers and encourage people to become conscious of what the government’s doing and lead them to, you know, understand or interpret that and just really, you know, be available and serve my buddy You know, Evan Carmichael is telling you about his book built to serve, I think it’s a really good phrase to have somewhere around in your mind is that if you’re serving, you’re going to be happier than if you’re not serving. So I’m doing the best I can to serve the people in my communities. So I’d say that’s kind of how I’m handling and of course, I look at my investments and some going down and I look at my revenue, and I know I’m going to be hit in the coming months. But I also know this is that this is a great time for opportunity and the person who can each day make better choices and each day be strong in their psychology is going to come out this better than the person who’s worried fearful and doubtful. So I do my best to be strong every day and grateful and blessed and all of my rituals and routines, and I have a feeling I’m going to come out of this pretty good which excites me.

Mike Ayala 32:47

Yeah, that’s awesome. So you have so much resource and and information out there. What’s the I really appreciate you just coming in and sharing, but what’s the best place that people can come and find you and interact and get in your wheel of value?

Rock Thomas 33:00

Well, I have a podcast called the I Am Movement podcast. And so it can go there. They can go to, get a free copy of my book, The Power of Your Identity. They’ll help them shift from unresourceful labels to empowering ones from working hard working smart, things like that. And of course on all social media @RockThomas, you’ll find me on Instagram and Facebook, and stuff like that. So, happy to add value.

Mike Ayala 33:25

That’s awesome. So the other day we were actually in I think it was rise with ROC, and somebody was mentioning a program that you’d done 20 years ago that used to be $500. And now it’s $7.99 or something. What is that program?

Rock Thomas 33:36

Oh, yeah, yeah. So when I was really, you know, wrapping my head around things that were most important. I came out with a product called the six keys to success. And I sold it. It was recorded in studio back then edited by myself actually, and then put on two CDs with a beautiful package in a little plastic container was so proud and we sold it for 500 bucks. It’s about six or seven hours of audio program today, you know the access to information is as forced prices down. So I think we have a special right now for seven bucks or seventeen I’m not even sure but the content is timeless. It talks about you know, the first key to success is you gotta have a burning desire, that burning desire. If I put a chair in front of you when you’re walking to the fridge, you might just go You know what, I don’t really feel like getting that glass of water, too much of a pain in the ass to walk around the chair. So the burning desire to achieve anything is the basis and foundation for all people that want to create epic results. And then I walked through decision making in self discipline in the math power the mastermind, but it’s a pretty cool product. And it’s a pretty simple product. So yeah, I’ve been doing this for a while. Yeah, I

Mike Ayala 34:46

I love it. You mentioned the the download, but if somebody wants to buy a product right now that’s applicable to our time that you’ve got out there. What would be the one that you would recommend?

Rock Thomas 34:54

Yeah, so we are you know that the best place I think for people to start is what we call the 90 Day Challenge. And the reason we do it 90 days is because it’s long enough to create change, but it’s not too long that you feel like oh my god, there’s a four year college degree before I graduate get results. So for 90 days you get into community where you get one digital lesson a week and you have one coaching call group coaching call a week, and we traditionally sell bad I think for about $600 but the team has some special going on right now for the Coronavirus, and I think actually it might be sign up and complete the work and you get your $500 back wow you could do it for free if you want to just have to do the homework or you can you can contribute it to another learning instrument so we got all kinds of stuff go to my website and I’m sure you’ll find it there under product awesome rock Thomas calm

Mike Ayala 35:45

so I’m going to the six keys to success. The first 10 people that email me just put rock in the subject line at team at investing for I’m going to give away 10 of those to listeners because I think at this point in time, there’s no better thing than to be learning and Being surrounded by positive people like you rock.

Mike Ayala 36:02

So I really appreciate you being on the program and any final words.

Rock Thomas 36:06

Yeah, I would just say that this too shall pass. And we have a tendency as humans to make things worse than they are in our minds. So I would say, don’t make it worse, don’t make it better just make you see it as as it is, and then work on making it better. What can you do today to you know, 20 push ups at home or eat a little bit better? Now there’s the economy, and then there’s your economy. There’s how everybody’s doing health wise. And then there’s how you’re doing. So this is about a really great moment, I think, Mike, for people to take stock on how prepared were they for this 90 degree turn or 180 degree turn. And if you aren’t, when would now be a good time to start going. Okay, I need to make some new choices in these areas of my life and chip away at it day by day and get a little bit better. And I think that’s what Mother Nature is trying to share with us is it’s time that we always Level up in a lot of different areas of our life, because otherwise you’re just gonna make the same mistakes. And you’re not going to be prepared for when this happens again in seven to 10 years.

Mike Ayala 37:08

Amazing last words Rock. I really appreciate your energy and just your desire to help people appreciate you coming on the show.

Rock Thomas 37:14

Yeah, buddy. Well, it’s great knowing you and this is going to be a phenomenal podcast. I know because whatever you put your mind to always turns out to be great. So congratulations.

Mike Ayala 37:23

If you found value in this episode, and you know someone who’s wanting to start or move further along in their journey toward investing for freedom, I would be forever grateful if you would share this show with them. And help me get this message out to more listeners. Also, if you enjoy what you’ve heard, I would appreciate it if you take 30 seconds and leave me a five star review and share this with your friends. And until the next episode, cheers to moving further along in your journey of investing for freedom.

Outro 37:45

You’ve been listening to the Investing for Freedom podcast, with Mike Ayala. For show notes and links mentioned in this episode, go to

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